Food Talk Show w/Chef Mimi and multi-award-winning filmmaker Joanna James

Michael Dugan: 2:14

Voice4Chefs is partnering with food is religion and releasing this special episode on our podcast. We're proud to share this amazing interview with you. Thanks to Jay India of freespiritpodcast.com for editing and creating a brilliant intro.

JIndia: 2:14

Welcome to Food is religion. This is a club within the clubhouse app where you can receive both entertainment and incredible free knowledge from the most creative, collaborative and brilliant chefs and insiders in the restaurant and hospitality industry. We have over 7000 members and growing. We have topics such as cooking classes, mental health, gardening, holiday recipes and the always juicy kitchen confessions. So take a break from the Food Network. And check us out on the clubhouse app. Download the app and your store. And once you're signed in search for food is religion and follow us it's that simple. We can't wait to meet you. Today is an edited recording from the food is religion room called the food talk show hosted by Chef Mimi lon, who is the creator of food is religion. She interviews the multi award winning filmmaker Joanna James of the documentary of fine line. In the film Joanna explores why less than 7% of head chefs and restaurant owners are women she and Chef Mimi discuss the making of the film. The surprising impact a fine line has had on the industry and Joanna's nonprofit and seminar series called Map MAPP which provides resources education and mentorship for female chefs and industry professionals. Without further ado, here are chef Mimi and Joanna James.

Chef Mimi: 3:45

Let's get started. I'm just so honored to have you here to talk to us because I have so many questions. My first one is your background is in journalism. But you didn't have any film experience prior to a fine line. You have no industry contact at the time. You had no budget. How did you get this movie rolling? Also, how did you get these big names like Michelin star chefs to be a part of it.

Joanna James: 4:17

When you taste something that just feels right that feels like you're on your path and you found your calling. You're not going to rest until you can just keep doing that. And that's exactly what happened when I started making this film. All I had to go on was I want to interview my mom. I want to share her story. I didn't realize how powerful and inspiring it was until I started speaking to more people who knew her and they're like you need to make this movie. You know you need to make a movie you need to share your mom's story and I knew because growing up in the restaurant industry, I should back up a little I was born and raised in the restaurant industry. My mom is a larger than life personality. But more than that she's just always been such a true leader where anyone who comes into a restaurant either as an employee or as a customer, she really cares about you. And so I saw all these years that she went from a small storefront pizzeria to a large restaurant and function room, how she mentors people how she impacts the community around her. And then meanwhile, I also knew all those heartbreaking moments that came close to her not being able to open the restaurant that came close to her having to maybe get out of it you know, all these different moments and then also these moments of triumph and just pure joy because things ended up working out and sometimes miracles happen. I think that's why I was just so committed to making this movie because there was so much there to share. And I realized that so many of the woman in this film who are, you know, renowned restauranteurs and celebrity chefs, they also have very similar stories in the sense that we think of them today as if. Oh my god, you know, they're just such talent and, and drive. But the truth is, if there wasn't certain pivotal moments in their life to ensure that they stayed on this path, maybe we never know about Dominique Crenn, or Lidia Bastianich or Cat Cora. And so that's why on the one hand, I realized wow, I love this work. It didn't feel like work to me. You know, I was a former journalist. So I love learning I'm always curious and the fact that it was so personal also with being on my mother and being on issues that I was even starting to go through as a new as a pregnant woman you know, on the offset is the film than the content matter also really connected other than the act of making the film that was really, I could do it morning, through night. And then I was in New York City. So you know, it became my school literally just going to every film festival I could to workshops from these really great women and film organizations that I have since used some of my own experiences to incorporate now into Mapp. Yeah, it just it really, you know, is a commitment and a love for the whole process.

Chef Mimi: 7:18

For those of you who don't know who is Joanna or the movie a fine line, make sure you watch the movie after this interview. But it's really the first time that issues like gender inequality and lack of female leadership was addressed and a movie, which explored why less than 7% of head chefs and restauranteurs are women. And the movie featured well known Michelin star restauranteurs and chefs. It really was the thing that kind of catapulted you towards your conference and seminar and other things that you are doing right now. So I am just so interested to know how did you raise the money? I mean, you've got director, Russel Green to direct who directed the movie witness.

Joanna James: 8:15

I directed it but first he started as the sole editor and then I learned a lot from him and you're right. He was a really important part to this whole process because he had Tribeca Film Festival credits. He's been on some films that were Oscar nominated Sundance, so he really brought so much knowledge to what I needed to learn that was a huge moment when I basically hunted him down at the Tribeca Film Festival. I really loved his film he was working on at the time, that was also food related and connected to a family. Sometimes those types of little miracles. That's what I call them happen where I convinced him let's go for this. This is my vision. This is what I want to do while you come on board. That was one of the first relationships that really made a big difference.

Chef Mimi: 9:05

So now that your documentary was a success, has it opened a lot of doors for you to do more? Was it easier with your convention and now your seminar?

Joanna James: 9:18

It did open doors for sure in the sense of access, you know, access to people who I wouldn't have met before in a lot of different areas, in terms of other people other you know, people in the film industry who I could meet and talk shop and learn and continue to want to build new treatments, as well as when you talked about money before we didn't really answer that. But I can go back to that but the point of being able to create corporate productions that help pay the bills, and just having people see that I'm a filmmaker, it helped in terms of getting A Fine Line out there because so many people connected with the stories and the topic, you know, yes, we're talking about women's rights. We're talking about gender equality and how necessary and important it is to stay ever so focused on making it happen. And especially during the Trump election, you know, so many of these issues are on the forefront. But even today, you know, we're still talking about a lot of these important themes that run throughout the film. So yeah, it really helped in terms of hosting a lot of events around the film, and then, you know, having important conversations and bringing new audiences who maybe wouldn't have paid attention to some of this, whether it's about paid family leave flexible scheduling, a lot of the conversations that are on the front burner today, that four years ago really weren't they weren't sexy enough, no one cared. But this film brought those conversations out because again, it was on food. It was on something so universal that we all come together over a meal. It was a lot easier to get people to tune in as opposed to if I maybe made a film on like women in tech or something like that, which even that of course it'd be interesting to me. But I guess the point was, we really did a great job at bringing in a whole new audience.

Chef Mimi: 11:13

Well, it's interesting that you brought up women in tech because let me quote something from Bloomberg News. It says it is less likely for a woman to be higher as a head chef than a CEO. I mean, the truth is women in leadership disparities are there everywhere. But it's even more so in culinary right? However, you know, the roadways are opening and there's hope on the horizon. Right? Can you expand more on that has the percentage of female chefs and female leaders in the kitchen been increased since your documentary?

Joanna James: 11:52

Yes, which is really interesting, because so it's been five years since the film has premiered. And within that time, also the creation of mapp as a 501C3 to empower more women into leadership in the hospitality and culinary industry. And in those five years, we've seen an increase from 19% of women head chefs to now nearly 25%. On the one hand, we're like, well, that's still only 25%. That's not a huge increase. But on the other hand, when you think in only five years that's happened and it's measurable. That's pretty significant. And especially considering what has happened and transpired in these last five years to get us to today. I can't say all the credit is on a fine line map. But what I can say is knowing the difference of where we were five years ago when I started, I mean even before that, you know eight years ago when I started the film, some of these organizations weren't even awarding many women's chefs. The accolades that they deserved. Magazine's didn't even feature some woman chefs in in some of their largest spreads about the greatest talent in the kitchen and things like that. So the conversation we really made front and center and a lot of people and that's something that I'm really proud of, you know, in the course of when the film came out, I was traveling nonstop literally, I've pictures of myself from being two months pregnant to then, eight months pregnant. I'll never forget I flew to Spokane, Washington, and I was eight months pregnant. I said, this is the last time I'll do that. So close to delivery. The point was we really went all over from Fortune 500 companies to Capitol Hill. We did a screening and speaking about the issues there with representatives and senators. So you know, we were really working hard to show what is needed, because the issues that we were focusing on were really for all women across all industries, and especially after COVID. We've seen how important they are and we're talking about things like affordable accessible childcare, flexible scheduling, which of course affects all of us. And we see that today in terms of even like remote work, we were not willing to talk about these things few years prior. We've made some progress. The biggest thing too, I think is that we've also convinced a lot of women who maybe weren't as willing to go there, because you know, a woman from the generation prior, they had to work really hard to get to where they were. Sometimes they felt, you know, when I was beginning to make this film, some of them I had to convince them I had to persuade them that look, we're not trying to make it easier for anyone in the sense of a handout, or Oh, you're not going to still have to work so hard and be committed to making this happen. But it's just a matter of equal and fair opportunity. And to not make things so hard either in terms of a toxic culture. harassment, assault, you know, we saw that with the me to movement, let alone even just more of the systemic issues like access to capital introductions, that's what we were focusing on that we have to support each other. There's just so much more work left to be done.

Chef Mimi: 15:15

First of all, I think that your movie, a fine line, had a lot to do with the increase in the percentage of female leadership's in the kitchen, whether you want to take credit for that or not. And secondly, it's interesting that you brought up how successful women in culinary. Wore, some of them might be apprehensive about whether they feel threatened or feel like they've worked so hard to get to the top and now they don't want to make it easier on other chefs like you have to work hard just like me. And like you said, it's not like we're trying to solicit handouts or anything, but here's another quote that I want to bring up from bat Yannick, who was also featured in your movie and she said I think it's a question of professionalism and career. Let's leave gender out of it and make it a professional issue and do the best that you can get the best education and roll up your sleeves and work at it. Whether you are a male or female. When you think about when someone say something like that.

Joanna James: 16:28

Let's leave everything off the table and have it come down to talent and skills and passion and commitment, of course, but we have seen firsthand that that's not the world we live in, right. And that's why this film was made. And I really respect Lydia's story and how she got to where she does because she did she had to work really hard. But she even says in the film, her husband was paling over with the flu. I mean, he could not move it but she had on that day an appointment with the bank. And she said I don't care how sick you are. You have to go with me or else I'm not going to get this loan. You have to be there. So you see what I mean. This why the fight for gender equality, for racial equity, for sexual orientation, all the things we're talking about today. You have to be just as vigilant because it doesn't matter how hard you're willing to work. It doesn't matter in terms of the things that come down to the person to making their dream come true. Are they getting fair and equal access? And you have to ask yourself that, could you go into a bank today and just get a loan and open whether it's a food truck or a restaurant or investors knocking on your door? Are you getting introductions like some other people who can easily come up with a couple million dollars in a day, Whereas the rest of us it's like, why is it so hard? When considering we do have the talent we do have the skills we have the background. So that's what we're trying to do here is just make it more fair create pathways and access. This is one of the hardest industries. So obviously, when we're talking about someone who's got grit, someone who's got commitment, a work ethic, don't even think about entering this industry. If you don't have that the truth is women we have to prove ourselves so much more on every corner. We have to do the work double, triple and even better than our male counterparts. And unfortunately, that's just the way it is. And I've seen it many times in my own career, and I hear about it so much still today. Sure. I'd love to take gender out of it. I'd love to take race out of it all the different ways that people try to hold us back. But until the rest of the world does that, we're going to keep fighting for equal and fair opportunity.

Chef Mimi: 18:49

100% I couldn't agree with you more. And that's why I feel like and I'm not to flattering you in any way but from my interactions with female chefs that I know from my own circle and also from the convention, the mapp convention that you created everyone. Felt like if anybody could change the culture, of culinary industry to make it better. You would be the one you are our hero. And so no pressure here. I'm sure you've heard it a lot because it's a small industry. Everybody knows each other and this is the buzz around you. And we have so much more hope that you are brave enough to come out and talk about issues has been kind of buried for so long. You've got a success of your documentary, something that you know you had no training and now that you've had success, you could have chosen an easier route of working on another movie, but you chose to organize a convention, something you've never done before as well. And then with the success of your convention, you could have kept going and do that every year. But yet now you moved on to this mapp seminar to provide coaching and mentoring another full time project for you. So all of these parts of your vision, your big vision, and what is this overall vision?

Joanna James: 20:29

Yeah, you're absolutely right. You definitely make me wonder if I'm more of a masochist or not. I really like to challenge myself and not only myself but see well what can we do better? What can we do more of you know, if we did this, and we see this result then we gotta keep riding that wave and we got to you know, keep going with that momentum. I'm huge into energy and energy in the sense of what we can all bring, and then watch it literally just expand and grow. And so it wasn't good enough to make the film and say, Okay, I'm done. Let me just get whatever deal put it on Netflix and call it a day. I knew if that was the case, it would sit there if people saw it great. I didn't have a budget to make that film. So I didn't have the marketing funds to go do a big PR campaign or do the things that can make the film really talked about. And I also wanted to use a film to honor women in this industry who weren't getting their flowers who weren't getting recognized. We created this cross country screening tribute tour. And we did that, you know, and we also challenge the status quo because a lot of organizations that today are doing a lot more, but five years ago think they were resting on their laurels. I don't mind playing that role. I really don't so we did that. And that's when I knew okay, if we see all these relationships being built, you know, everyone's in agreement that more needs to be done and there's more we can do to help each other. That's how we created mapp. I never would have thought I'd have a conference. But it was you know, again, during COVID. We did an online webinars series, but a very different type than today. It was something more like bringing speakers on to talk about how we could how to pivot. Because still, it was COVID time and then I realized, wow, you know, we really need to bring everyone together. It's not good enough. You know, the virtual resources and tools are so important and they've played a huge difference in terms of access to knowledge and information and networking. But sometimes you really do need to be in the same room with someone and it just catapults your success much faster. That's what we did with the first conference. And I can tell you it was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life literally much harder than making my first movie because you feel like a kid in kindergarten thinking, is anyone going to come to my birthday party? We just had no idea how it would be. We put everything into it in terms of the programming and the schedule and the panels. We really approached it as producers, sort of I think conference makers because that came first it wasn't about the sponsors and all the other stuff I should have been thinking about. It was more about the content to make sure that when people did come they really felt the energy and the intention behind what we wanted to build there. And then when everyone did come literally like you said, mimi you know all these incredible women and men from all across the country, nearly every state represented and we very much also curated the audience. To ensure that women who are doing such phenomenal work in their communities, who aren't necessarily on the cover of Food and Wine Magazine or being honored by the James Beard Foundation, but who deserve to be at this conference to participate so we can hear from them. We provided many, many scholarship tickets. It was also at a time when the labor shortage, tight margins and so many of the entrepreneurs who came they expressed to us I don't know if we can come you know, it's hard to take the time off. And when they came the consensus was I heard from so many of them. This was the best decision I made. Thank God I'm here. I see. I'm not alone anymore. The people I've met here, you know, there was just so much camaraderie and also deals happening on the spot which was awesome, you know, chefs making alliances and creating pop ups together or even some sponsorships that I heard of. So that's what it was about. And so now because we had all this knowledge in that room, so many great people who came to share with us, I said, you know, we can't just wait to do it once a year. And for whoever shows up, we have to put something together that is going to live on. And so that's what this roadmap webinar series is. It's a way to have again, some of the best industry experts and leaders, celebrity chefs come together on different topics. On how to accelerate your business growth and career. Things like marketing, PR branding, to menu development to access to capital and profitability. Again, I'm just really so grateful that many of our industry leaders trust us and believe in what we're doing. To be so generous of their time and their insight. So with the roadmap, I do want to also say I think just before we move on and forget, it's an eight part series, so every month is an hour and a half course basically, they culminate into a course you'll get ACF accreditation. It's also part of Florida International University's curriculum now and you'll also get the recording.

Chef Mimi: 25:52

Thank you so much Joanna. You know, I wanted to know why you think mentoring is the key to success for women in this industry. Why mentoring?

Joanna James: 26:03

Mentorship is the key to success for any industry for all people. Because I can tell you as a first time filmmaker, I had like you had said earlier I had no industry contacts I had no you know, I wasn't from a lot of wealth to just knock on people's doors and say hey, you know, I want to do this. I didn't have any formal education. Much of that when it comes to like culinary craftsmanship when we're talking about craft it is a lot of learning on the job. And so if you can find a mentor who's willing to take you in. Number one know the questions even as we don't know, you know, even in terms of pitching proposals or treatments, or so many of these different things. You need someone to act as a soundboard. Also, if you can actually learn like I did with Russell Greene, my editor or go to some of these different workshops and then get to have these people as coaches after the fact. And that's what mapp is so focused on doing for women in the hospitality and culinary industry because there's so many great ideas. I wish it only came down to you just have a great idea and it will happen but the truth is, you know, like that, quote, inspiration is 1% 99% is perspiration. So you have to work so hard to make it a reality and we want to help make sure that a lot of those really great ideas come to fruition as opposed to never see the light of day. And so mentorship is the first part to that to making sure that there's a chance there.

Chef Mimi: 27:40

Yeah, and it's really true about mentorship, but also it's not like you can just approach your favorite chefs and say, well, can you mentor me or can you share some advice. Because they're also busy, and as much as successful people like to talk about their success, but realistically, they're not that easily available. So this program, this seminar that you have is really the best way to get coaching from female rockstar chefs and restauranteurs under one roof. Right?

Unknown: 28:14

That's right, the webinar because it's also live. You're getting direct access to these speakers. I'm talking about people like Nina Compton, Amanda Cohen, Lorena Garcia who's just a mastermind when when we're talking about scaling restaurants and her Restaurant Group and all she's done, Michael Shemtov just so many amazing people who have joined this webinar series,. Tiffany Dairy, so you get to ask them one on one questions. You get to be connected with them beyond the webinar series because you will get to talk to them and get their information. And then when it comes to mapp in general, we get that it's it can be intimidating to reach out to like you said mimi your favorite chef or restaurant tour or any industry leader. And so we want to take the onus off of that and figure out who's the best fit for you as well. A big part to successful mentorship is realizing who can help you the most at whatever stage you're in. So become a free map member. That's the first step go to mapp impact.org. It's literally a free membership and then you can see all the different resources we provide. And like I said, mentorship is one of them. Advocacy is just as important when we're talking about things you're doing in your communities and maybe getting the word out even more we can help with that. We're also going to go back to our roots in terms of creating a lot more local community events with partners in those communities, other nonprofits who are doing great work. There's a lot of exciting things we're working on. Of course, like you mentioned the conference coming up. We're in gear already planning our 2023 conference. We have it locked and ready it's May 1 through the 3rd in Fort Lauderdale again, it was just such a great time. Definitely become a map member so you stay up to date on everything. We want you to be part of this with us because that's how we started just from everyone joining this movement.

Chef Mimi: 30:11

There are so few female successful chefs and restauranteurs out there. Without programs like this. I mean, who do we ask for advice? Do we come to for tips and questions and so this is so good not only that's important for mentors, but also for mentees. So thank you so much for having this program. My next question has to do with COVID. As we all know it was detrimental to the hospitality industry. But now that the dust has settled. Do you think that people begin to see in hindsight COVID has opened more doors to see beyond the horizon and force us all to make some real changes? Do you think the future of hospitality is changing for the better because of COVID like better hours, more attention to mental health for example that I see not happening prior to COVID?

Joanna James: 31:13

Yeah, I mean, COVID it didn't do anything that wasn't already there. It only exacerbated what was already happening if there was a silver lining is that finally a lot of the issues that needed to be addressed needed greater exposure. That happened like you said mimi in terms of mental health and the need and access for more mental health. For instance, my mom has an open door policy. She's every day still at the restaurant. She works with so many young people, older people, people who are retirees who come to help and host to young people who it's their first job. I'm like, Mom, you're more of a psychologist than anything else. Because, you know, she wants people to feel good at work. And she knows that there's a role that her as an employer, she has to play also. There's been so many cases. I mean, I could get into specifics of how the way she runs the restaurant has literally saved some people. Then we're talking about things like drugs and alcohol that can be prevalent in this industry just because the nature of the of the industry in terms of the hours, the heat, the volume, everything you're dealing with. So the fact that a lot of this has been recognized now. Employees are also saying, Look, I need more of a work life balance. I deserve a quality of life to not just bankers, you know, and so I think it's great that employers are closing once or twice a week or shifting their hours to make things better for their employees and themselves. The IRC was formed the Independent Restaurant Coalition who had our backs on Capitol Hill before them, you know, I know the National Restaurant Association has been around and they've done some great work when we talk about the Pro Star Program and some other programs they do. But I think small town not just the chains but independent restaurant tours and chefs really needed to get a wake up call and say you need to be just as actively involved in engaging with your representatives and showing what you need to that was something that was really key. And I think also getting the public involved the public realize, wow, you know, this is one of the hardest hit industries, more so than in almost any other industry. And we really rely on our neighborhood restaurants and cafes and bistros and bars, not just for the great food but literally our sanity. You know, I think of so many elderly who visit my mom's restaurant, for instance, but so many different communities. And that could be the one social interaction they have for their week and imagine when they couldn't leave their assisted living or in cities where you go to a bar to socialize or to connect and when those weren't around. So we also see the psychological value that places that bring us together to gather really offer. I hope we just keep staying on message about this. So the public can be just as actively involved in realizing they need to support small businesses.

Chef Mimi: 34:18

Those of you who are not familiar with Joanna's mom, she was the inspiration behind the movie a fine line. She is a single mom that started out with a 1500 square foot Cafe has now turned into this 15,000 square foot iconic restaurant. So that's something to be admired. And maybe

Joanna James: 34:41

If you really want to see my mom is and learn more of the story. You can now watch a fine line. It's offered through this very, you know, special offering because we're doing a fundraising effort to partner with all have what she's having, which is another great organization out of Houston and what we're doing is most of the proceeds from you renting a fine line on Vimeo will go towards this fun for women's health care in the hospitality industry for reproductive rights but also for mental health for preventative care. All have what she has does such a great job really advocating for women, women's health care, and what we need to do more of in this industry and so if you watch a fine line now, if you go to a fine line movie on Instagram, the link is there and and you can go you can go straight on Vimeo and rent it like I said it's going towards women's health care.

Chef Mimi: 35:42

I had the privilege of meeting your mom at the conference, the food conference last year in Fort Lauderdale and we happen to sit at the same table and I chose love love love your mom. She she's so down to earth and full of stories to tell and I didn't know it was your mom until much later. But I have to tell you that food conference was hands down the best conference I've ever been to because of the quality of female chefs who attended and the vibe of the Convention, which fostered mentors and mentees relationships, so it was really awesome. So my next question to you is like, are these two projects your convention and your upcoming seminar? Are they going to be happening annually?

Joanna James: 36:32

I hope so. I'll be very candid with you where a new young nonprofit, we don't have the type of funds and endowment that a lot of these other nonprofits have. That's what we're working hard on now is really building the revenue because it literally goes right back towards the programming. That's it. The more we do these types of things like the webinar series, the conference, you know, different things that we can raise revenue because our goal is to create a fund that what we can do is offer woman resources towards their development processes, whether it's consultation with some of the experts in the industry for lease negotiations for your profit and loss and profitability for social media, advertising and online marketing, you know, all the things that you really do need to highly consider today to run a successful business. And it can be really expensive to hire some of these consultants at their hourly rates or the different ways that you hire them. So our goal is to create a fund from the revenue that comes in so that we can really be able to do more of that, because I've literally heard so many stories where women were on the fringe of getting burnt out and having to close their shops and not because of the work, they love the work. They thrive at the work that's what they know. It's more all these other factors, that if we can provide those resources, and access to experts and coaches and that will make a huge difference. So that's what we're working hard on.

Chef Mimi: 38:08

You've done so much for the industry for women. I mean, you work tirelessly to advocate to make changes. And today you've been so generous with your time by giving us so much insight into the reality, the culinary industry and all of that. So what can we do for you to show you for the appreciation for the next few minutes, Joanna? Feel free to plug whatever you like, like when is your roadmap seminar? And how can we sign up for it? Tell us a little bit more about that.

Joanna James: 38:41

Yes, I mean, the way everyone can help is to be part of our movement. There's no way we can do this without you. It's about sharing the message. It's about getting people involved if they don't know about map mapp impact.org Let them know about it. We've already mentioned the roadmap webinar series starts this Tuesday, September 20. It will happen each month on the third Tuesday of each month at 2pm. Eastern Standard Time. The whole point of it is to make sure that people in this industry who want to advance and grow and who have that dedication and love for what they're doing. But you know need some more knowledge or expertise. They're gonna get that with this. The reason we do what we do maybe I want to also connect the dots here because I really everything I do I need motivation. I'm a mom of three kids under eight. You know, I build I have a mortgage, I don't stop and so I always have to ask myself, why am I doing this? What is my purpose? The purpose is, again, when you know that almost everything we talked about in today's most pressing issues, whether it's the environment, sustainability, mental health, immigration, all these issues, literally our restaurants, our chefs, the hospitality industry, influences those, they touch these issues. So when I know of so many restaurants or hospitality professionals that are doing amazing work in their communities because they're committed to a cause. And they're working with, you know, sourcing from local farmers or they're giving those who were formerly incarcerated a second chance or they're hiring and training at risk youth. That's so motivating to me because we need to make the world a better place one neighborhood at a time. And that's what restaurants do, and our small businesses and our independent business owners, so that's why I do what I do because I just want to make sure that we keep them in business and that they don't get burned out and not only burned out, but that we can offer a path so they can do more of what they're doing. When you become part of our movement. It's to make sure that we can just keep providing those resources and education and inspiration. So we see all this great work happening feedings, the food insecure, all the great, amazing work that so many of you literally who are with us today. You do that's what it's all about.

Chef Mimi: 41:18

So Michael, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. What's your question?

Michael Dugan: 41:22

Thank you chef Mimi. I'm just really inspired by you, Joanna and chef Mimi as well. I really feel empowered by what you're saying. And what I'm really curious about and maybe he's maybe you've already said this, but if you could summarize for all of us. What really inspired you what really called you to do this and and how did you gain the confidence to be such such an incredible speaker and a voice for this cause?

Joanna James: 41:53

Oh, thank you, Michael. I really appreciate that. What really inspired me is twofold. First, being raised by such a badass fierce mom, who's my ultimate role model and hero seeing what she went through and all she sacrifice for both my brother and I to get to where we are today. I have no choice. It's like of course I'm gonna work my hardest of course I'm gonna do everything I can to give back because she did that for us. And you know, I believe in faith, I believe in like I said energy. I want to sleep well at night and the way I can do that is to just do the most I can while I'm here on earth to help others. And then the second thing is because I became a working mother and it was still so hard today 30 years after my mother's story. It's not any easier and so it's like everything that was happening everything that I was going through and feeling and things we're still talking about today. I just want to make sure that you know it's not so difficult for our daughters, you know, and that they realize they can do and be whatever they want in any industry in any end game. You're absolutely right. We have to build up our confidence it's not a given nothing is a given. I went through so many trials and tribulations until I finally got the film out there. You can't leave room for doubt. Like my mom said she gave such a great quote in one of her interviews is like she wore visors and just tunnel focus and and especially as women we have to do that because I think we take on so much burden to take care of everyone else. Every other thing we can do we're gonna do first and it could be literally the laundry before our own dreams and desires and I learned from the best person my mom that no, we can do what is within our heart and that's not selfish. That's called really incredible.

Michael Dugan: 43:55

I am very emotional by this food talk show today. This is absolutely incredible. I will watch this movie The moment I get a moment today. Youve really inspired me and so many and I'm a podcaster and I interview a lot of female chefs, and I feel inspired by their creativity and their persistence. And this just resonates so much with me that I'm really emotional about it and I'm so honored to listen to this talk show today.

Joanna James: 44:25

Thank you. Oh, thank you really thank you so much. Male ally ship is so important. And a lot of men think that it's enough to say yeah, I believe in equal rights, sure. But you have to actually put in the effort to things like making introductions things like congratulating someone and then saying, hey, if I can help, if there's anything, please let me know. You know. So Michael, I really appreciate you being here. And now saying what you're going to do from here on out too. It's really great to hear that.

Chef Mimi: 44:58

Michael is truly an ally to women in this industry and, and a well loved person in food is religion. So thank you for being here and for asking that amazing question. I just have one last question. I find it fascinating that although you started out studying journalism, but now you find yourself looked up to as a Shiro and hospitality, making some real changes, and in the process, you discover your calling and your passion. So what is your advice to anyone out there who is still searching for their own calling and passion?

Joanna James: 45:32

You need to not make excuses? Because I did that for a long time. I thought that Oh, I don't know anyone, especially for the industry of communications or art. You know, it's like how do you just break in? I don't know anyone. I didn't even go to school for this. But if you have a passion for something or you start to find that out by doing things that feel good, you know, that feed your creativity or little by little you start to feel like you're on your path. I read Joseph Campbell, the hero's journey. It's a really great book and you start to realize you make sense out of a lot of different signals or things that happen along your way. And we have a choice, we either going to get motivated by those things and listen to our instinct and intuition and feed and fuel that path. Or we're going to take the easy route because it's not easy even though it becomes pure joy to do what you love, and you can do it all the time. There's going to be things that test us. If you're on that right path with something that you love something you can't imagine not doing in life. You're not going to give up and you're not going to make room for excuses. You're going to just keep going for it and eventually it will happen. And then you have to nurture it like right now I'm trying to create my second treatment for a project that it just came into my life now finally feeling like I'm ready, I'm ready to dive in all over again. It's a constant effort. To make sure that we don't back away from the thing we're supposed to be doing.

Chef Mimi: 47:08

Joanna, what can I say? I could talk to you all day long. If you hadn't told me you had to stop. One hour. I could have talked to you on and on. But I had to be super organized in order to get all my questions in that one hour time. So I think again I did it.

Joanna James: 47:27

Mimi, think your other career in life was a journalist or Interviewer That was such a fun hour and it flew by and I honestly wouldn't get off if it wasn't for me hearing the kids in the background. My husband's on a work trip this weekend. So that's the only reason why I have to go. But really, thank you so much for giving me this platform today to share you know about roadmap and a Fine Line. You're amazing and I'm just so grateful that we've been connected and that we're friends so thank you so much for all you do as well. It really makes a huge difference.

Chef Mimi: 48:03

Joanna, I have to say I think your secret to success is you, your personality, your warmth your sincerety it all came across. I just wish you the best and I'm just honored to be a part of your ambassadors of mapp to get the word out to help you promote it. Thank you so much for your time. This room has been recorded. You can

JIndia: 48:25

You can follow Joanna James on Instagram at a Fine Line movie and at mapp impact and her nonprofit website is mappimpact.org. Check out food is religion on clubhouse to join our weekly rooms. Until next time, remember that food is religion.