Food is Religion Talk Show with The Grief Curator

Michael Dugan: 1:16

Welcome everyone from around the world. You're in the talk show in food is religion. And I am so excited today because we have a very special guest on our talk show. I want to welcome Michelle Gill she is an author, a speaker normalizing conversations about grief and loss, mental health advocacy and disability awareness. Her debut memoir is coming out it's called Don't tell me to get over it comes out this year. And when she's not writing, she's cooking recipes from around the world fangirling over the latest Kdrama and reminding her to cat who think they're Egyptian gods that they've already been fed. She's my friend. She's a friend of food is religion. She's an officer in feud is religion. And our club again is now though she's the rock behind the scenes as an officer in food is religion. Michelle, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming.

Michelle Gill: 2:52

Hey, Michael. Thanks for having me on here today. I'm so excited to talk to you.

Michael Dugan: 2:56

Let's get started. Let's dive in. My first question to you is you are known as the grief curator. How did that happen? And what's that all about?

Michelle Gill: 3:05

Oh, thanks for asking Michael. So it's almost five years now that I lost my dad back in 2018. And around 2000, and, gosh, actually, it was 2021 that a friend of mine approached me and said, you know, you really need to write a book about your dad and about your grief journey. And I resisted for quite a while, but I finally did it. And I did this masterclass where I wrote my draft my rough draft of my memoir in about 90 days. And, and then the leader of the masterclass said, you know, you really should get on clubhouse and start talking about this and I was like, What is clubhouse? And so then I was like, Well, what is going to be my thing, you know, my handle and we came up with the grief curator. I haven't looked back since then. So I've been on here now since July of 21. And it's been an amazing journey. I've met so many people who are also grieving also having a tough time, but then it's also where I met chef Mimi, and I was in a room with her. And I was talking about food, which may seem like wow, why is the grief curator talking about food but we can get into that and kind of the rest is history.

Michael Dugan: 4:29

Yeah, that's amazing. And I'm sorry about that I lost my dad to a couple years ago. I was still thinking about him. But you know, it was it was bittersweet because he was a really, really tough person from the military Coast Guard. just tough. Tough to love. I mean, I loved him but he was really, really tough to love. And I think about them all the time. So I'm really sorry. I think the work that you do for other people to help them through grief is truly amazing. I would love fitness in a positive way and just kind of talk about your clubhouse journey. You have an amazing journey. You are you're all over clubhouse, I mean, you're in food as religion, which we are so grateful. But you're also in all these other rooms. I see you in different places. I see a pop up and talk about your journey and it's hard. What keeps you coming back to clubhouse.

Michelle Gill: 5:21

Oh, my gosh, yes. Well, I really I just love clubhouse. This app is such an amazing place to meet and connect with people all around the globe, just with the power of my voice. And it's a wonderful way to meet people. Because you know, on social media, you've got static posts. It's very easy to be catfished but here on clubhouse, you can't really hide have your voice. I guess you disguise your voice. There's just something about the power of the human voice. And I have met so many incredible people here. On the app. I like to say I'm multifaceted. I'm multi passionate. My main thing of course is talking about grief and loss and mental health and disability awareness. These are all things that are very near and dear to my heart. And I guess you could call that my niche but food is also a huge part of that because food is what I like to call my sixth love language. And you know the intersection of food and love and grief is much tighter than you think. Or then you may think because that first week after we lost my dad, my mother and I specifically because my sisters had not flown in yet. We didn't eat the first two days because we were in such shock and greed even eating was just not on the radar. So I always encourage people don't ask people who are grieving or going through a rough time they can what they need, or what you can do. The first thing you should do is just feed them because they will not have the energy to do that. So I popped into a room that chef made me was doing I don't even remember what room it was. I don't remember what I said on stage but whatever I said she messaged me on the back channel and said I we need to talk. I would love to have you come and talk about food. In whatever and from there was born food explorers and my love and passion for other cultures and learning other cultures and highlighting their their culture through their food and cuisine and their traditions. was really how that came about. And the connection to grief there is that in my own personal grief journey. I was trying to find a way to express my grief to figure it out to walk that journey. And I really didn't have any guidance around the year anniversary is when I started getting into specifically Korean dramas, but also Chinese dramas. And the way that death and grief were were portrayed was really fascinating to me. I started really researching because history is my that's what I have my degree in I really started researching how other cultures other people deal with death and dying and grieving. That's really kind of where these two things came together my love for other cultures, my own personal grief journey. And the fact that for me food is love.

Michael Dugan: 8:47

That's amazing. I would have never tied the two of them together with these Korean shows that wouldn't tie that connection. That's really fascinating. And I'm glad that it helped you through your journey clubhouse. Who did you meet on clubhouse? Who are people that influenced you or that you just went wow, I met this person because that's what happened to me. When I joined clubhouse. I couldn't believe the people that are that I was meeting not just celebrities, but just the types of people and the way they thought about the world and the way they were connected to the world. You know, and then when I came to listen, it just blew up for me. But I'm really curious about who you met. And I think that our listeners are as well.

Michelle Gill: 9:31

Oh wow, who didn't? I meet? Oh my goodness, so many people. I have met on this app that have really inspired me motivated me, mentored me so of course I have to mention chef Mimi because she has been such an incredible lighting light and you know with the club the food is religion. Club. I really met so many people. In fact one of them is with us today in the followed by speakers chef Andrea and her work with the indigenous communities so inspiring. I'm always learning so much from her and she has in turn connected me to other people that are also doing this. So it's so amazing. And then I have to give a shout out to Mimi, Mimi Langley, who taught me how to moderate those first few months and she was absolutely incredible as well.

Michael Dugan: 10:25

So I have to give a shout out to you and I was waiting to do that. And you taught me how to moderate because I remember I was nervous when when I first did that cooking class. And you helped me figure out how to navigate that in I would say in a clubhouse way. This method that you go through and you think through and you tried to take out the fluff right and you really tried to get to the heart of things and and I just love you for that really lifted me up and just leveled me up so many levels. That now I just have confidence. You know, I don't I don't have impostor syndrome anymore. And I think when I first started I had that and a lot of us do a lot of us come up to the stage and we're just nervous about it. But oh my gosh, you're a mentor and a model for me. Michelle, so you know take that in, take that in really in front of your friends here because you know that is amazing. And Chef Andrea, I really respect you. And we did an interview together and that will be coming out soon on our voice for chefs podcasts I've got I'm going to be putting out this talk show rereleases on my podcast so our listeners from around the world can really connect with you Michelle and Andrea and and a lot of the other people that I've interviewed because it's such a special conversation that really needs to be told and retold. I just wanted to let you know that because you know you've really inspired and influence me and another thing we're going to talk about is leadership and food is reli gion. What I wanted to share with you Michelle and you don't know that you can be embarrassed because no one can see you but I'm going to I'm going to put it out there so chef Mimi and I are very close and I've been connected with her for a long time when I first came into this food is religion. I literally called her up because I was kind of new to the podcast to the voice4chefs podcast. I really wanted to interview a Michelin trained chef. And she's Michelin trained, you know she traveled around the world studied under some Michelin chefs. And I literally was with my wife in the mountain side in Seattle, Washington upon a mountain with really bad reception and we were having breakfast and you know when there's a long line of people at a place where you go for breakfast, I had some downtime, and I really wanted to connect with her and I just let my wife know I'm gonna go call this person. So I'm in my car freezing to death talking to Chef Mimi for the very first time. And I'm just like, I really want you to come on the show. And that's how we connected the food is religion. And from then, you know, we started this cooking class and you were the co host but really you You and I were hosts together and the cooking class and that's when I really got to know you and respect you because I learned so much by watching your stuff or listening to your style of moderating and then Chef Mimi and I had this conversation and I want everyone to hear this around the world. She asked me to be the admin for our leadership group for food is religion. And I said I can't do that. I don't have that skill set. I'd be honored and she's like, well, you know, who else do you think would would be able to do this? And we both at the same time said Michelle. We absolutely I mean it was like immediate decision no questions asked of everyone in food is religion and you have done such an amazing job as an admin in our club in the leadership circle for food is religion. I just can't even tell you how grateful I am.

Michelle Gill: 14:14

Oh, that makes me laugh. I was laughing over here because that Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, I have been such an honor for me. And I really love the food is religion club, which of course this spring is going to be turning into a house. And I've just the people in this club are absolutely amazing. I have to give another shout out to Paige who's down. I wish you know how Facebook. You can give somebody one of these badges that they're like a top fan. I clubhouse needs to figure out a way to do this because Paige is one of our top fans. She almost never fails to show up to support even if she can't stay for the entire room. She will pop in and it's such a page. I gotta just gotta tell you I love you. I cannot wait to meet you face to face. year because every time I see your face pop into one of these rooms I just get such a warm feeling like yay. Somebody is here who you know is supportive and is listening and really cares about about me but also about the club and the members and the topics that we talk about here. So the people in the food is religion are just they're just top notch all of them just just amazing, especially the host and the co host and and our fans. It's just it's just an incredible community.

Michael Dugan: 15:42

I agree with you and Paige. She's been following the voice for chefs podcast for a long time and he's donating to the show and truly appreciate you and his religion and as a follower and a fan of whispers so you really inspire me. Next question. How did you connect to food at an early age? Was there a special dish always so passionate about food? You know so much about food and food culture, but where did that come from?

Michelle Gill: 16:08

Oh, that really comes from my parents. So my father was Polish. He was born in Poland and came over after the war. That's a whole other story. And then my mother is from the southern part of Virginia, in the mountains and specifically from that maternal side. Southerners in the United States tend to be all about food. You know, you go to grandma's house and you get fed biscuits and gravy and then you go to your aunt's house and you get fed fried chicken there and you have to eat at every house you go to because if you don't what's wrong with my food? It's considered rude because they are cooking in order to show love. They were not they still aren't very adept at expressing love with words or in a in a very healthy way, let's say but food was always kind of a substitute for that. And for me, I just saw it as and it didn't matter. So my mother's side of the family. They grew up literally dirt poor with a dirt floor in their cabin. They had outhouse they didn't have running water, that type of thing. And one thing that my mother told me that my grandmother said that has always stuck with me whenever somebody would come to visit. She would say we don't have much but what we have you are welcome to and that idea of sharing and hospitality even if you had a very little was really inspiring for me. And I took that on, I guess from an early age. And once I grew up and I moved out and had a place of my own for a while I really took that as a calling, that hospitality that idea that everyone is welcome at the table and this is where we can share despite our differences despite what we have or don't have. We will break bread together and I want to extend to you, you know this warmth, this hospitality this safe space where you are fed not just in body but in soul. That really became a big thing for me. And that has never ceased. The pandemic was really tough for me in that sense because I was used to inviting people over for dinner, especially those who didn't have family in the area or could not afford to visit family in the area. I would always invite them over and feed them and of course during the pandemic that was that stopped for quite a while. And I'm only just getting back into that now. Because it's it's something that feeds my soul as well to to feed and care for other people.

Michael Dugan: 19:16

Yeah, I can relate to that. You know, for me what feeds my soul is being a podcaster It may sound strange, but it's having chefs on and giving them a voice and a place in a space, you know, to share their their struggles and their story. hat's what we do and food is religion as well as moderators. You know, it's so powerful when people come together, and we give them an opportunity to share their story and I'm gonna digress for questions. I'm gonna say How does it feel to be a moderator? How does it feel to give people a chance to get over their fears, you know, when they come up on stage right and you are such a welcoming person where you make anyone in the room feel that they can do anything. And how does it feel when you bring somebody up to up on stage and maybe they're nervous, right? And you give them this confidene. Michelle, how does that feel?

Michelle Gill: 20:17

Oh, well, first I didn't know that I was doing that. Oh, yeah. Oh. I have to say that. This is why one of the very many reasons why I love the clubhouse app. If you had told me three years ago that I would be speaking on stages and doing this on a regular basis. I would have been like, are you crazy? I don't like public speaking. I'm very shy. Everybody gets really surprised about they're like, you cannot be sure I'm like yes I am shy.

Michael Dugan: 20:50

I know.

Michelle Gill: 20:53

Yes, but I have learned to to put myself out there only because I'm doing it not for myself but to highlight other people. And again, that hospitality it's that that belief that part of my purpose here on Earth is to make you feel welcomed and heard and seen because I know what it is like to not feel seen. And I don't want any woman to go through that.

Michael Dugan: 21:26

Yeah, I I really sensed that about you. When I first met you actually was like I need to connect with Michelle. You know it just it was one of the things because I feel I feel the same way in the sense that I want. I want other people to be heard and seen him. And I think for me, you know, I worked in the restaurant business for 10 years and I studied to be a chef, but it was really tough. And in the mental anguish, the frustration coming home every day and just kind of thinking why am I doing this? I loved it so much. But I would come home exhausted and beat up because it's really tough. People would yell at each other in the kitchen. You know, there'd be wars between the service staff and the chefs and the cooks. And it was just a lot of intense stress and mental frustration. At that time I didn't speak up as much, you know, and now I look back at it. And I think that may be also why I am in food is religion, and I'm a moderator and that goes to talk show and, and kinds of things. But it's so interesting when you when you kind of look back and you reflect on it. Can you tell us a little bit about the griefcurator website what can people find when they go to your website?

Michelle Gill: 22:50

Oh, thanks Michael for with my website. My biggest thing was my book which is coming out this year. No release date. My book don't tell me to get over it. It is a my story about my dad and losing him and my personal grief journey. And what that looks like the reason I wrote it, first and foremost, to be honest, was for myself just to get the stuff down because I did not want to forget what it was like the first week that first six months of first year that I was experiencing this. And then the second was I wanted other people to know that they were not alone. I joined so many grief groups, virtual grief groups, like on Facebook and so many people were saying that their friends and family were telling them to get over it. Or they shouldn't be crying so much or it's been X amount of time. You really need to get over this, which is where the title of the book comes from. I was absolutely appalled. Because I of course, part of the way that I cope with things is to research and read and learn and arm myself with knowledge I just kept reading things that said, you know at the time that said, grief is not something you get over it is part of your life now, and it will always be part of your life. And it is not something that become smaller over time. It I really I believe it remains the same size, but we grow around it and I'm sure everyone who's listening has seen like the illustration of the jar with a little ball inside and the jar grows around the ball over time. And that is how grief is. And so I wanted to write I wanted my memoir to be a touchstone for people to read and see themselves in my journey. Even if it's just bits and pieces of it to say I'm not crazy. This is normal, and it's okay to feel all the feelings, the grief, the sadness, the depression, the anger the fear, all of that. It's okay and no one has the right to tell anyone else how they should be grieving, or what the timeline should be. And as my tagline my tagline says grief is not a problem to be fixed. It's love with nowhere to go.

Michael Dugan: 25:46

That's that's beautiful, powerful and amazing. All at the same time. I'm getting emotional now. You did it to me.

Michelle Gill: 25:56

My job here is done.

Michael Dugan: 25:59

Yeah, right. So as as we go along in your journey. What keeps you coming back to clubhouse? Because I know you were so involved not only in food is religion. Why do you keep coming back? What is it that really feeds your soul?

Michelle Gill: 26:14

It's all about the people. It's about relationships. And it is so amazing. I still am meeting new people on this app. You know, I see some times where some some poor souls out there think their clubhouse is dying. But clubhouse is still very new. People forget that. It's only you know, a couple of years old and the amazing things about the founders is their dedication to improving this app and they do listen to us, which is amazing and you really don't find with other social media apps. And it really is about the people. In fact I did. So I have my own house which is. So music is another one of my passions. I have my WGEN radio house which is all generations and all genres of music are welcome. It really kind of came out. One somebody had asked. Do people even listen to the radio anymore? And two, I had a friend years ago who was younger than I am. And we were talking about I mentioned something about Duran Duran, and she said, Oh, I don't know who Duran Duran is. I said sweetheart. I was not born when Mozart was writing his concertos, but I know all his music. So that is not an excuse. And so I love introducing people to different genres of music and I love being introduced to different genres. And so I started this house and I did a room on Galentine's Day on February 13 replays were off because it was a house room. But I gathered people that I had met on this app that I have never met face to face but who I considered had the most beautiful voices here on clubhouse. And I asked them if they would read Love Letters, either historical or fictional, or their own. And it was 90 minutes of pure bliss. They read these letters and in between I would play music that matched what they were talking about. And it ended up and it was so funny because you know how you would said earlier that you were inspired to moderate by me but even though I have been moderating since 21, I was so nervous, my hands were ice cold. And I don't know why but I was just so invested in that room and sharing my passion for for letter writing and for music. And it ended up being the most incredible and I was kind of sad that I didn't record it because the chat was so motivating and inspiring, just beautiful. I wouldn't have been able to do that. Without this app. I never would have met those people without a clubhouse.

Michael Dugan: 29:17

It really truly expands your mind expands your network. It expands your passions. I mean, it's just so it's so unique and so addictive. Right that's the other thing. I had to manage my time a little bit different. I so agree with you and back to Duran Duran, Duran Duran Seven and the Ragged Tiger was one of the first concerts they ever saw. U2 Unforgettable fire and Seven and the Ragged Tiger. I loved Duran Duran to this day and I will put it out on my podcast and say that. I'm an 80s person I love 60s 70s 80s 90s all the way till now. You know I love all genres of music as well. I will join your house immediately. What's the name of the house again so people can can join?

Michelle Gill: 30:08

So I did it like a radio like an old radio station. I did WGEN Allgen radio 38.9 which is actually I can't remember if I chose the latitude or longitude but of Washington DC which is where I am. Friday nights is our all request. This past Friday we did cinema cinematic masterpieces that ended up having an Adam was there Adam is another one of our top fans and food is welcome. He is always retable supporter and Lorna as well. Who's in here? Yeah, we did that and it ended up being this really incredible room. This tonight I'm going to be doing my Sunday supper club which is jazz. So yeah, definitely join the house. It's all about it's all about music.

Michael Dugan: 30:52

I was talking to you at one point and I said you know, Michelle, you have this amazing voice and and you should take it further than clubhouse right. And I said, Have you ever heard of Toastmasters explain Toastmasters about speaking and leadership and I think you'd heard of it. And then you joined I would love to know and I would love our listeners around the world on clubhouse as well as on my podcast to know what your perspective was what your journey was like in Toastmasters and what have you done? Because I know you're very involved.

Michelle Gill: 31:25

Yeah, you had you had mentioned it to me and I was like, What did you know I had heard of it, but I didn't really know much about it. And then I discovered a Table Topics room here on clubhouse that is run by some Toastmaster folks, and I hopped into there and I've discovered that I really love speaking publicly which again, I never in a million years would have would have thought that in the past. And now you know, I've joined my own regional Toastmasters and I've won a couple of contests now with the table topics. And it's just been it's also been an incredible inspiration to meet people who are also committed to becoming better speakers in order to reach more people with their message. Because at the end of the day, that's that's why I do what I do. I know that's why you do what you do to reach people. So that again, they feel seen and heard. Because isn't that what we all want? We all want to belong. We all want to be seen and heard. We all want to be loved. And I enjoy doing that with the power of my voice.

Michael Dugan: 32:37

I see you as a voiceover artists if you haven't even thought about it because you just have this really powerful, welcoming, nurturing voice. You know when when people connect.

Michelle Gill: 32:51

That makes me laugh so hard because I hate my voice.

Michael Dugan: 32:58

All your friends here are agreeing with me.

Michelle Gill: 33:00

because I hate my recorded voice and I took a class A weekend class with a voice coach. And one of the things he said is that everyone hates their recorded voice. He said it's because of the way we we hear our recorded voice it's it's different than the waist. somebody hears us live, it has to do with the ear and the bone structure of the ear and all of that. I can't tell you all the ins and outs. But I thought you know I've had enough people say this to me at this point in my life I finally said okay, if if these many people are saying it, I I don't see it, but they must see something I don't or here's something that I don't. So I'm just gonna go with it. And since you know, clump out I really I just I am a fan girl of clubhouse if you can't already tell. And I really credit this app with helping me step into that power that I didn't even know that I had and really embracing okay, this is what I'm supposed to do. This is part of my purpose because I truly believe I don't believe in coincidences. I don't believe in randomness. I think I'm meant to be here for a reason. And I'm you know, and that reason changes. That's one of the best things that I've discovered and as I've gotten older is that my purpose can change and I am the architect of that and right now, it is using my voice to raise awareness about grief and loss. It's to raise awareness about disabilities and accessibility. It's to raise awareness about other cultures. It's to raise awareness about mental health and ending the stigma around that. So yeah, I just love this app, and I'm loving this conversation.

Michael Dugan: 34:49

Let's talk a little bit about the rooms that you host. Okay, well, let's start

Michelle Gill: 34:54

with the ones that I lead because I do a lot because I really love this app. So the number one that I lead here in food is religion is the food explores, which my dear co host King, we switch off so we do the second and fourth Tuesday's of every month, and he focuses more on the travel and and I focus on the history and culture of whatever place that we're going. So we've done we've done rooms on lunar new year we've done rooms on African the African diaspora we've done we've done so many different rooms, and in fact, we did one with Chef Andrea, but the food explores room it's it is all about discovering new cultures. And the you know the food, but also the history. And because I truly, maybe I'm optimistic but for me, food helps us cross boundaries and break down barriers. My belief is that the more that we know about each other and about the world, the less room there is for fear and racism. That's just that's how I feel. And then the second food is religion room that I co host is with Simona actually, that you mentioned and that's our spices advice room Friday's. And that's a really that's a that's a very spicy room. But I just I just add the history so I do a lot of research on the spice like you know, when would it originated? Where did it first come from? How did it make its way around the world that type of thing, which is a lot of fun. And it's fun to use my to use my background in history to do that.

Michael Dugan: 36:41

Yeah, I love the spice advice room. I tried to get there as much as I can. As as we start to wrap up. I want to ask you, what has been your proudest moment on clubhouse or in food is religion?

Michelle Gill: 36:57

Oh, that is a tough question. I have to say it's actually probably the one of the proudest moments came when I did one of my grief rooms specifically. I had somebody reach out to me on the back channel and say that they were so grateful that I did the room because they felt seen and heard. They were really suffering and going through a rough patch. And because I had that particular room. It was like throwing them a lifeline that really touched me because sometimes you know as creators on this app and on social media, we put stuff out there, and we don't always see a return in terms of you know, did this really make a difference in someone's life? I don't know. I'm going to continue doing these things because it's what I'm supposed to do. I feel called to it but is it really making a difference and to have an opportunity where someone reached out and said and confirmed that yes, I'm doing what I'm supposed to. I'm doing the right thing and I'm on the right path because it reached at least one person and helped them feel less alone. And I would have to say that is that's one of my proudest, proudest moments.

Michael Dugan: 38:30

That's incredible. Michelle. Want to have a little bit of fun. We're going to we're going to move from the dark to the to the bright and maybe the funny. So we're gonna get cooking this is my favorite part of the show. What is your worst kitchen disaster?

Michelle Gill: 38:49

Oh my gosh. I laughing so hard right now. I think I mentioned this in another food is religion room. Okay. So I had I was heavily involved a couple of years a few years ago now in doing volunteer work and charity things and there was a specific charity that they were asking for donations for their auction their silent auction, and I was like, wow, what can I do? And I'm like, Well, I love to cook. I will donate a dinner for for at my house with the founder of that charity. I think I priced it. I said oh it's gonna be worth about $500 Because my venue was going to be you know, organic, locally sourced filet mignon and a bunch of other stuff. I'd have to go back and see what the actual menu was. And and then lo a local wines. It ended up somebody did I'm not but no, this was the gosh, this was about 15 20 years ago. But they bid 6000 that's one of these paid $6,000 for this dinner and I was like, Oh my God, what the heck. So and I had a friend who was just an incredible piano player. So he came and donated his time and he played you know, beautiful piano music while they had dinner. I moved the dining table into the living room. I had in my head incredible friends I still have they're They're an amazing group of people, but they acted as sous chefs and I had one of them. He put on his tuxedo and he acted as a waiter. And we just gave him this full thing but one of the items on the menu was some type of potato recipe. I don't even remember what kind of was but they had to be mashed and instead of asking somebody to mash them while I was, you know, cooking other things, I put them in my KitchenAid mixer, and I let it go. It was like glue. I can hear voice right now. Rolling and by the way, it's definitely I love so much. Just so you know. Right as it's probably busy cookie as he's listening, but I could just hear it in her voice. I looked at I said oh my god, you could use this to put up wallpaper it was so I was like, What the hell? And so I had to think on my feet. They're like, Okay, what do I have in the pantry that can substitute for the, you know, this kind of starch dish or whatever I ended up using. I had some also and I ended up doing an ortho dish, which was totally fine and they didn't know any different. But that was my worst I've just got to be my worst kitchen disaster was was the glue like potatoes that I had to ended up I ended up infecting for so bad I ended up throwing them out which I never throw food like oh eat my disasters is totally fine. But that was just so bad like Yeah, but I learned my lesson don't put mashed potatoes in your blood in your mixer and and just let it go. It's not a good idea.

Michael Dugan: 42:26

It's funny when I I always ask on the show, I always ask about kitchen disasters or the chefs around the world. I interview and some of them get stopped right and I feel like they don't want to tell it because it might discredit them you know and it's like no you got to learn to laugh at yourself. I interviewed is Isi Laurono from the Philippines. We had spent months trying to coordinate this interview right and it was absolutely amazing. And she just laughed at her kitchen disaster and it was so cool. It's so cool that you can laugh at yourself. Michelle is what I'm really trying to say because you're competent, and that you can just share that, you know. Some chefs have a really hard time doing that and and so I find it. I find it unique. When we talked about that, that one specific question. I always catch them off guard because I want it to be a natural experience. Right. And they're sharing that story.

Michelle Gill: 43:24

I think it's so important to ask questions like that. Especially on social media. Where are we so often especially on Instagram, because it's so visual oriented. We see the result of years of practice and of course, you know people take doing 10 takes with their camera and perfection. Yeah. And we often and I'm guilty of this as well. I look at stuff and I go oh my gosh, my my shit doesn't look like that. It looks terrible. But we're comparing our rough drafts with the final product. And so I think it's I'm glad that you asked this question. Because we all do these things. We all make mistakes. We all eff up. And it's it's not funny in the moment, but it's definitely funny later and it makes for a good story. And we shouldn't be afraid of that. And I think you know, sometimes it comes from childhood wounds where you if you make a mistake, definitely for me if I made a mistake, I felt like I would lose I would not be loved anymore. I would be abandoned. And so I'm really leading into that now that I'm in my 40s where I'm like no mistakes. are great, because it means that I'm trying and now I know not to do this next time now I do something else. So I'm really glad that you asked this question. I think it's so important.

Michael Dugan: 44:52

Yeah, it's a it's a very unique one. And I always love hearing the stories. I have my own disasters. You know, I I set a microwave On fire once right? And I say this publicly. I was in college right and I went to cooking school like what the hell but it happens is what I'm trying to say you don't you don't cook sugar in a microwave without being right next to the microwave.

Michelle Gill: 45:18

Well, noted. I will. I'm noting that now.

Michael Dugan: 45:22

Chocolate, Chocolate can burn Chocolate can set on fire. You know, it's just it was a lesson learned. Right? And I was in college and you know we were having a party and I mean, you just don't do that. So anyway, now I've tainted my reputation, but I don't care.

Michelle Gill: 45:41

You've just made yourself more human. And I think that is the most important thing.

Michael Dugan: 45:46

What about restaurants like you could go anywhere in the world right? Now. I know DC has some amazing restaurants. I have a friend out in DC so shout out to Asid he's one of my dear friends we actually cooked together years ago. He was a sous chef and we had a really good time. But anyway, if you could go anywhere in the world and dine out where would you go? And what would you?

Michelle Gill: 46:15

Oh boy, another tough question. So first, I have to give a shout out to founding farmers which is a restaurant in DC that really kind of back in the day was one of the first ones that were doing kind of the farm to table concept. They had beehives on their roof. Oh my god. Yes. They're absolutely fantastic. And also purple patch which is one of my favorite Filipino restaurants in in DC and they they're just amazing. So those would be my two recommendations, if you ever come to Washington DC is to check out those two restaurants and of course, like you said, we have we have quite a few that are still still operating made it through the pandemic and are just incredible. Oh boy, if I could go anywhere in the world. Well, if you know me and you have heard me speak at all in any food rooms, you will know that East Asia is very near and dear to my heart. So I would have to say and in fact I am planning that with my dear friend Anna who I met on clubhouse. She and I have not met face to face yet. We are still virtual friends but she is like my soul sister. And we actually are starting a podcast together all about East Asian culture. So I would have to say I would go to South Korea I would go to Japan and then I would travel China. China is so huge and has so many oh my god, there's just I think they have 56 last I looked 56 different ethnicities in China in different languages. And of course that means different food traditions. So I'm really looking forward to doing that at some point. As long as you know, the world doesn't go up as well, considering the current political climate. Thast where I would go if and I hope to go in a couple of years. So that's what I would do.

Michael Dugan: 48:13

So before we wrap up, I just want to give a shout out to Andrew Thompson, who is one of our talk show hosts and we run a weekly talk show and food is religion. 9am Pacific Standard Time 12pm Eastern Standard Time and we invite you to join we have these conversations. They're amazing. Jason Hodge is an incredible moderator and friend and he's going to be hosting next week. Andrea also hosts chef Mimi host and I host those every week at that time, and we definitely want you to be here because these conversations you do not want to miss them. Michelle, is there anything that you want to share with the world?

Michelle Gill: 48:59

Sorry, I was posting a link on my house in the chat. Because if anybody was interested in and loves music and loves chatting with other music lovers, then I would love to have you come into the house into the living room and into our music room. Anything I would like to share with the world Life is often so difficult and something that Lorna said in the chat is beautiful, yet bittersweet world. So true. I have been in some of the darkest places in my mind that a human can go and I have been at the very edge and wondering do I really want to go on? Each of you has a purpose, a purpose that can evolve and change over time. But you are such a beautiful and wonderful soul there is so much beauty out there. It's like a rose. You're not going to have it without the thorns. But it's worth it. It's worth spilling a little blood now and then someone somewhere who may not have told you yet and may never tell you has been touched by your life. By your love. By your heart. You are needed. You are wanted you matter someone somewhere some soul some some life in it may not even be human needs you to be here and there is power and being able to see that and just step into that purpose. So if you are listening right now and you are going through a tough patch and you are like I do not want to get up to face tomorrow. Because it is much too painful. I see you. I hear you and my god the pain can be so debilitating. But I'm begging you to keep going just for another day and just for another day and still another day because there is so much beauty out there that we have yet to experience. I know that I don't want to miss a moment of it. And I want you to be there with me. Let's experience the beauty and the bittersweet together. Life is not all sugar and sweetness and light. Gotta have the savory gotta have the sour let's do it together. Because you do matter. Thanks so much Michael for having me. This has been a beautiful, beautiful conversation.

Michael Dugan: 52:55

It's such an honor and as I said, I've I've been looking forward to this for a long, long time. You are such an inspiring person. You give so much of your heart and soul and you have been an amazing contributor food is religion. The thing that races through my mind is the day that I wanted to have a celebration for voice4chefs. It was our year anniversary. And I remember reaching out to you and saying would you would you help me and she goes, I'll host it for you. And my family came like you just jumped in and created this amazing experience because I couldn't do it for myself. I didn't want to do it for myself. I needed someone that I could really trust in that could could run it and you're so spontaneous and so talented. And that was a very, very special thing for me. Very humbling. But very special and and the talent that you have to sell is that you lift people up you empower other people, as a moderator as as a human being. I am so grateful for that. And I want everyone in the world to know that about you. But what I wanted to say is that is there any any way that we can support you? I want everyone to go out to the griefcurator.com and and see what she's doing and really support her and maybe you have friends or family that really are going through a lot. Michelle is that person that you want to reach out to? Is there anything that we can do to support you and your mission?

Michelle Gill: 54:42

Oh, wow. Well, I guess you can like and follow and sign up for my monthly newsletter. Which my new one will hopefully be coming out in March. Really the best way to support me is to learn how to hold space for those in your life who are going through a tough time. It is it is not easy to hold space we tend to want to fix things and you know grief is uncomfortable. It's really uncomfortable to sit with someone and and listen to them cry or and and not be able to help them. And yet sitting with someone like that is helping them your presence alone can be such a gift. And that's what I would ask people is to learn how to do that because it can be learned and it takes patience and it takes compassion and it takes empathy but such a gift and so many people are hurting today. And they need to we need each other.

Michael Dugan: 55:54

Well I've invited your friend Lorna and my friend and friend of food is religion now. If Lorna wants to share a little bit I think she has some she wants to say

Michelle Gill: 56:03

Thank you so very much Michael and Michelle. Holy smokes. I actually had tears in my eyes when I posted in the chat but I do mean it. You're such a compassionate, Renaissance woman because on every level I just fully embrace how you do keep humanity on every level and and like many people say thank you thank you because I believe it and you mean it when you meet people where they are and sometimes that is the most loving thing anyone could do. So thank you very much Michelle, and Michael, live in peace from California and much Aloha. Oh my gosh, I'm blushing over here. Lorna you are so sweet. Thank you so much for sharing.