75 Part II: Leading the Escoffier Institute: Chef Kirk Bachmann’s Culinary Legacy and Vision

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Ultimately, Michael, I got involved with teaching and never thought I could do

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it.

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Please share

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Yeah, it was an opportunity.

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My, my family sold the business and I had an opportunity to go back up to Portland and become a teacher.

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And I, I thought I had, I loved my education there.

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I think I can teach.

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I don't know.

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I'll never forget the very first day.

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Who inspired you there?

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Can you shout out, give a shout out to anyone who inspired me at the school when there were a lot of people, I think the major inspiration for me at that school was a gentleman by the name of Nick flu.

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She's no longer with us, but Nick was a front of the house guy.

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He was a wine guy, sales guy ended up being the president of the school.

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But what Nick had, well, and Nick was a big guy, six, four, just a massive human being, a great presence.

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He loved taking care of people.

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I love it.

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Oh God, I love it.

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He made people

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laugh.

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And so do you, by the way.

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I know this in your soul.

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That's all

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Nick.

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It's all Nick,

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right?

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That's amazing.

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I was going to say, President.

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I mean, that's amazing.

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Yeah,

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yeah.

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I learned a lot from Nick.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And, there, there were so many people.

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There was a young man that went through school with me.

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His name was George Thompson and George was a laborer, right?

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He was a mechanic.

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He was, but he was one of the most gifted artists I'd ever seen.

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And we learned this as we started going through school.

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Like I'll never forget during Easter.

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One of our assignments was to decorate eggs and all.

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And George shows up with this stuff that looks like it'd been done by a laser.

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It was amazing.

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And then chefs, like there, there was a chef there, an Austrian chef named Franz Poplar, who was a competition chef and he noticed George and he took George to, to Germany a few times to create centerpieces for him.

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Franz, it's a fun story.

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Franz, towards the end of my education, Franz came up to me and said, I'd like you to train with me and we'll go to Germany and we'll compete.

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And so I called my father and said, Hey, Chef Franz would like me to go to Germany with him and compete.

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And my dad says, what does it pay?

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And I said, well, dad, it doesn't pay anything.

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He says, I'll see you next week.

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Oh my gosh.

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What happened though?

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Come on, what happened?

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I'm dying.

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I love learning about competitions and yeah, Franz

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Poplar did really well.

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So I don't know if you know anything about the culinary Olympics.

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Is he, I was just reading about it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's what it's called.

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it, it happens every, you got to

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share with our listeners and your listeners.

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Think

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about why wouldn't we

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have

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a culinary Olympics, right?

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Oh yeah.

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There's a lot of culinary competition around the country.

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You just have to look for it.

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Right.

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I've done a little bit myself and, but the culinary Olympics is this opportunity for countries.

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around the world to come together every four years, takes place in Germany and there's all kinds of categories, right?

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Hot food, cold food, hot pastry, so on and so forth.

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George went with Franz and he wasn't on, I don't know if.

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He was on the U S team, but you couldn't be on a U S team.

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You couldn't be on a military team.

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You can be on a regional team.

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You can be on a state team, wherever somebody gets sponsoring.

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Right.

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But it's very regal.

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The pageantry is amazing, right?

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Just like the Olympics, right.

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That we're experiencing right now in Paris.

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So the chefs march in and that's what I love.

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about this industry.

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And that's what I love about what Augusta Scaffia did for us.

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Think about we're in these beautiful jackets and there's a reason for these jackets, right?

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They say, depends on who you talk to and where you are, but they say that the military had nothing to do with the culinary at the time, but they say that the military garb that Napoleon put his soldiers in was so beautiful and it was double breasted, right?

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And the reason it was double breasted is that after they, We're staying from war, if you will.

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And then they came into the towns, Napoleon wanted his soldiers to be very presentable.

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So they flipped the jackets and that Escoffier was in the military for a long time as well.

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Why?

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And he brought that to the kitchen.

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And if you do any, if you do any research at all on the French revolution, you learn that in the early days, the French There was a reason for clogs, right?

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Clogs were on chefs so that they could stand a little higher than the soot and the fumes that were coming from the ovens, right?

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They'd elevate themselves a little bit so that they could breathe.

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And the reason they had little caps on their head was because that soot would go to the ceiling and then fall on their heads, right?

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So everything about What we do aprons and baggy jackets and such was all to protect chefs in the heat of the kitchen.

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Right?

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Wow.

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And then when the bourgeoisie revolted it during the French revolution, most of the aristocracy.

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They were fearful of being poisoned, right?

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They all had personal chefs that they trusted.

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They also had clergy that they trusted, right?

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Whether that was Christianity or Lutheran or whatever it was.

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So they, in, when the revolution took place, they wanted to hold onto these cooks.

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So they disguised them in the wardrobes of the clergy.

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And that's where the chef toke was.

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Came to be.

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And again, even if I'm making all of that up, Michael, it's no, it sounds beautiful.

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Such a good story.

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Yeah, it's a really good story.

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Now I'm going to be Googling after this.

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I'm going to be like, wait a minute.

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There's many stories, but

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all

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kind of lead

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to

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the same path.

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Yeah.

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Well, I love the idea of the chef coat and you could get it dirty on one side and you can flip it.

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I never even, that never even came to my mind.

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Well, think about a chef owner today that might be in the back, cranking out a bunch of meals.

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And then.

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Go to the front.

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yeah, absolutely.

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They need to look presentable.

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Right.

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So my wife calls it a costume, but yeah, I love it.

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When I was the vice president of education for Le Cordon Bleu for many years, I really supported competition because it challenged our chef instructors.

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It, and it was fun, right?

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Yeah.

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Against a criteria other than our own.

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And so I felt like if I asked chef instructors to do that, I had to do the same.

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So yeah, I, when I had time, I competed and what I loved about competition was that you may not think this, but the judges who are always Chefs and maybe your peers, they're really pulling for you.

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They're really pulling for you.

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They're so positive about a technique, maybe a new technique that they haven't seen, and you always learn something.

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I remember the first time I ever competed, I received a silver medal.

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And.

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Man, I'm sure I cried and I have that medal somewhere.

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And I, which competition was this?

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It was a American culinary federation competition in Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin of all places.

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I lived in Chicago at the time.

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So it wasn't that difficult, but there's competitions all over the place.

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There's competitions at the coast.

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There's competitions in Texas.

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There's barbecue competitions all over the country.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I, some people take it super serious, right?

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I mean, really serious, but it's one of the most famous competitions in the world.

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I mentioned Philip Tessier is the Bakuda Or, right?

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So every two years ago, every two years, countries from around the world, regions now nominate and dedicate at least one team, right?

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One.

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primary chef and then a commis chef, right?

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Right.

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And they have X amount of time to, to execute a very challenging dish.

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And it's named after Paul Bucuse, one of, you know, the most famous chefs ever to live.

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And what I love about it is that It, it challenges people to go well beyond what they think they can do, right?

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And the United States has a lot of backing for the BOKU now, mostly through the work of Daniel Ballou and Thomas Keller and Gavin Kaysen and others, Philip, that got involved.

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But historically, France, Germany, Switzerland, the Scandinavian countries, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, They put a lot of time and energy into competitions like that.

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And they do quite honestly, right now they're at the top of the hill.

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They're the countries that are winning competitions almost every two years.

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Well, don't chefs in

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Europe kind of start at 10 years old?

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Well, like my, like, like my dad or anyone in a vocation right in Europe, it's very natural.

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12, years old and you, if you're not going to go the university route.

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You are going to go the vocational route.

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So whether, and that includes being a doctor, if you're going to become a doctor in Europe, you're going to start studying very early.

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We got to catch up.

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Yeah.

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Well, we do a lot of really great things in America.

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Education is available to a lot of people, but there's something really special about tradition, right?

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There's something really special about learning from others.

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And that's what I've always found fascinating about education.

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So a student comes to school, maybe they come to school with us.

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And.

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They get exposed to so many different people who have other life experiences and they bring those into the kitchens and the classrooms and the hallways of our school.

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So it's not just, it's not just learning how to grill, but it's learning how to walk around in the kitchen, how to communicate with people.

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If you have something hot in your hands and create a community and talk about what you want to do in life.

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So many students come here with an idea of what they want to do and they leave.

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With a completely different idea of what they will do.

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Right?

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So big fan of education

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in any form.

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So let's get into this.

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I've been thinking about this a lot.

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Can you share a couple successes of your students?

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Where have they gone off to?

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What have they done when they came through Escoffier and they kind of worked themselves through things?

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I'd love to know about someone who didn't have any experience that went on to, to do something in the culinary world, but I'd also love to hear about a couple of them if you could give an example or two.

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Well, and I already mentioned one, Kristin Kish, right, who was your typical student like Katrina Markoff who tried traditional education wasn't for her and she sort of figured it out.

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But, you know, on, on a more.

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level.

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There's one story, one individual that really always touches my heart.

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His name is Trenon and Trenon is a, he's a retired army captain.

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He's still very young.

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He went into the army at a very young age and retired a captain and served our country.

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And.

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Had always wanted to become a pastry cook or chef, right?

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So he found us from the Southeast part of the country and he found us and he came to school here.

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And he and I just, I'm running the business, so I'm not always in the kitchens and such, but Trennan is a pretty eclectic and electric sort of personality as am I, and we were bound to find each other.

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And we did.

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When I just followed his path through and he volunteered for every opportunity that came up, every single opportunity.

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And Trennan made his way through the pastry program.

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He did some really cool things.

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Like working with different chocolatiers in the area.

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And then he called me up and said, I think I want to come back and learn the other side.

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Came back and he's here now currently learning the culinary side.

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So Trennan's ultimate goal, and I'm going to have to force him to spend some time in the industry, but Trennan would be an incredible teacher.

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Wow.

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He's just, he teaches his classmates anyway, without any formal guidance and such.

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So that's a really beautiful story.

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there's several stories.

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Here's another one.

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There's a chef, his name's Andre Natera.

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He was, remember when I talked a little bit about going back to teach in Portland?

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Yeah.

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So this was in the nineties, right?

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And so Andre was in my first class that I ever taught.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And Andre was great.

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He's one of those guys you just remembered.

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He was a good student.

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Yeah.

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He's a little edgy fast forward, years go by and I'm doing some work in the industry.

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and I remember being on the phone with the Accor hotel group.

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It's a big hotel chain around the world and the brand that you might recognize as Fairmont.

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So I'm on with all these people who are about to build this beautiful Fairmont hotel in Austin, Texas.

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And so we're going around the room and people are introducing themselves.

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And then they come to Andre Natera and he gets the microphone.

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And he says, hello, chef Bachman is Andre.

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I hadn't heard from him in 20 years, right?

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There was this beautiful sort of memories and all of that.

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So he's the chef.

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He was the opening chef.

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Yeah, of the Fairmont.

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He had a great, he's had a great career.

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Wow.

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So Andre's been on my show

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Yeah.

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and I can share some other information with you later, but he's got a, he's got a podcast and a presence on social media called Chefs USA.

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And he does really well, big supporter of culinary education and he's a friend of Escoffier, but that's a beautiful story of someone who Kind of means a lot to me and I've kind of kept track of that person.

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There's another young man who graduated from here at Escoffier a couple years back.

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His name's Jordan and he had some restaurant experience and he landed in a couple of really fine houses here in the Boulder area for Bobby Stuckey.

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And today he's running a restaurant that's been open in Boulder for many years.

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It's right on Pearl street.

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It's super popular.

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He's kind of running the show.

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It's called salt.

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and that's Jordan.

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Just a tremendous human being.

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Boy, the list goes on.

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We've got just with Escoffier alone.

00:14:19.375 --> 00:14:23.115
We have close to 20, 000 graduates already.

00:14:23.144 --> 00:14:23.914
Oh my God.

00:14:23.955 --> 00:14:25.595
All around the country.

00:14:25.634 --> 00:14:25.955
Right?

00:14:26.195 --> 00:14:29.355
Another beautiful story is a woman.

00:14:30.014 --> 00:14:31.514
Her name is Bekai.

00:14:32.409 --> 00:14:47.639
And she and her family live in West Africa and she found us online and Bekai has her own culinary school in West Africa and she does beautiful things for local people there.

00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:53.070
But she wanted to learn a little bit more and online was the only way that was going to work for her.

00:14:53.620 --> 00:15:01.870
But last November, she and her husband made the trip from West Africa so that she could walk across the stage for graduation right here in Boulder, Colorado.

00:15:03.245 --> 00:15:10.644
I've had her on the show as well, and that's a beautiful story of someone who will be a friend of mine for the rest of my life.

00:15:10.975 --> 00:15:12.304
Oh my gosh, I love it.

00:15:12.654 --> 00:15:14.735
You need many more minutes for all the stories, right?

00:15:14.804 --> 00:15:15.024
Oh,

00:15:15.024 --> 00:15:15.495
I hear ya.

00:15:15.524 --> 00:15:21.644
Well, let's wrap up the storytelling part and say, what significance do you think storytelling holds in the culinary world?

00:15:21.975 --> 00:15:23.865
How do you weave it into Escoffier?

00:15:24.095 --> 00:15:24.644
Yeah,

00:15:24.705 --> 00:15:29.174
God, it's such a good, important, relevant.

00:15:29.674 --> 00:15:31.485
Comment question, right?

00:15:31.504 --> 00:15:43.914
And it goes back to what I was saying a little bit earlier, Michael, that all we're really asking our faculty to do today is to be facilitators of knowledge, flip the classroom, right?

00:15:44.105 --> 00:15:47.105
Perhaps provide your students some information.

00:15:47.134 --> 00:15:50.745
Could be a video, could be a book, could be an assignment, could be anything.

00:15:50.754 --> 00:15:51.975
Give it to him in advance.

00:15:51.975 --> 00:15:56.095
Give them some time to, to think about it and then listen to their feedback.

00:15:56.095 --> 00:16:00.605
To them when they ask questions or they try to peel it apart, right?

00:16:01.095 --> 00:16:18.264
Not all of our chef instructors are competition medalists, and they're not all Michelin star chefs, and they're not all, James Beard award winners, but what they are is passionate about students and education, and they're great.

00:16:18.595 --> 00:16:31.634
Storytellers and that those stories could can be as simple as, Oh, my gosh, I remember one morning when I walked into the kitchen and it was flooded and we had a banquet coming in of 75 people.

00:16:31.634 --> 00:16:32.784
And here's what we did.

00:16:32.784 --> 00:16:34.044
And here's what we didn't do.

00:16:34.044 --> 00:16:36.174
And students hang on that.

00:16:36.865 --> 00:16:36.884
Yeah.

00:16:36.894 --> 00:16:39.134
Storytelling is critical.

00:16:39.164 --> 00:16:39.884
It's critical.

00:16:40.455 --> 00:16:44.815
We tell the story of Auguste Escoff, who's a great storyteller, is Michel Escoffier.

00:16:45.134 --> 00:16:45.735
Oh my gosh.

00:16:45.735 --> 00:16:46.884
We need to get him on the show.

00:16:46.894 --> 00:16:48.004
We need to arrange that.

00:16:48.394 --> 00:16:53.794
He is such a storyteller, especially about his great grandfather, Auguste, right?

00:16:53.794 --> 00:16:53.923
Yeah.

00:16:54.205 --> 00:16:54.595
Yeah.

00:16:54.595 --> 00:17:03.095
It's, I don't know that we put it on the job description or anyone puts it on the resume, but you can tell very quickly if somebody applies for a job.

00:17:03.524 --> 00:17:06.335
And I'm even okay when people are super technical.

00:17:06.994 --> 00:17:16.045
Yeah, that's all fine, but you just have to be able to share a story and it can be, it could be very informal, like you were saying at the beginning.

00:17:16.055 --> 00:17:18.634
Sometimes we don't like scripts.

00:17:18.634 --> 00:17:22.434
We like to just right off the cuff and that's okay too, but

00:17:22.434 --> 00:17:23.535
story flying pretty high

00:17:23.535 --> 00:17:23.994
today.

00:17:24.125 --> 00:17:24.845
We're definitely flying.

00:17:26.035 --> 00:17:26.704
Amazing.

00:17:26.815 --> 00:17:28.605
It's better than I could have imagined.

00:17:28.615 --> 00:17:29.684
Honestly, it's wonderful.

00:17:29.684 --> 00:17:30.694
Stories are beautiful.

00:17:30.704 --> 00:17:31.625
Stories are great.

00:17:32.494 --> 00:17:39.025
Have you ever, speaking of stories, does your school work at all, or are they involved with Toastmasters at all?

00:17:39.785 --> 00:17:41.005
Answer is yes.

00:17:41.055 --> 00:17:44.184
and I, some of the names will kind of escape me.

00:17:44.184 --> 00:17:45.565
There are individuals.

00:17:45.984 --> 00:17:51.884
That are involved in, and there's been press releases and different individual accolades for sure.

00:17:51.894 --> 00:17:52.384
Are you,

00:17:52.865 --> 00:17:54.944
Oh yeah, I've been doing it for 10 years.

00:17:54.984 --> 00:17:57.494
Isn't that toastmasters is what launched my podcast.

00:17:57.525 --> 00:17:58.365
Oh, that's great.

00:17:58.595 --> 00:17:59.105
That's great.

00:17:59.204 --> 00:17:59.444
Yeah.

00:17:59.525 --> 00:18:01.464
Great mission, vision, those kinds of things.

00:18:01.464 --> 00:18:01.674
And

00:18:01.684 --> 00:18:03.345
maybe we can do some things together.

00:18:03.345 --> 00:18:04.255
That would be kind of fun.

00:18:04.255 --> 00:18:05.355
If there's somebody really

00:18:05.355 --> 00:18:06.334
love it

00:18:06.414 --> 00:18:08.605
and special to you that we can bring on the show and

00:18:08.755 --> 00:18:09.375
definitely

00:18:09.494 --> 00:18:10.724
anything like that.

00:18:10.924 --> 00:18:25.795
Just like slow food or regenerative agriculture with farmerly, any of those sorts of topics and themes that we can put in front of students who then take those themes with them into the industry are really important.

00:18:25.795 --> 00:18:28.025
So Toastmasters has been around a long time, right?

00:18:28.065 --> 00:18:28.724
Oh yeah.

00:18:28.984 --> 00:18:32.244
They're in over 330 countries, I think.

00:18:32.244 --> 00:18:33.045
Isn't that something?

00:18:33.115 --> 00:18:34.005
It's crazy.

00:18:34.035 --> 00:18:42.970
We have a hundred and I'll get it wrong, but probably 140 clubs from Kent to the Canadian border, which is Kent, Washington,

00:18:43.230 --> 00:18:43.779
Washington.

00:18:43.779 --> 00:18:44.069
Yeah.

00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:45.440
All the way to the Canadian border.

00:18:45.809 --> 00:18:52.079
And, you know, I've been involved for a long time and the podcast piece, I'm now in a podcasting Toastmaster group.

00:18:52.539 --> 00:18:52.849
Oh, no,

00:18:52.869 --> 00:18:56.619
and I'm going to brag about this interview and interview.

00:18:56.619 --> 00:18:59.490
I have a Tom Douglas and just share one of my dreams.

00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:07.460
One of my crazy dreams is to go around the world, virtually in Toastmasters and inspire other people to start their own podcasts.

00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:09.920
And I'm going to tell the chef's story to do it.

00:19:10.450 --> 00:19:10.700
That's

00:19:10.700 --> 00:19:11.140
amazing.

00:19:11.140 --> 00:19:13.079
you really enjoy this.

00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:17.559
I can tell that you really, you're just super comfortable and you're just.

00:19:18.369 --> 00:19:19.099
It took a while.

00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:20.279
It didn't happen overnight.

00:19:20.349 --> 00:19:21.009
I'm sure.

00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:27.539
Syndrome, freaking imposter syndrome is tough for a lot of people and I'm a tech, but I'm also an extrovert.

00:19:27.549 --> 00:19:31.359
So I kind of have a weird mix, but I also studied to be a chef.

00:19:31.369 --> 00:19:33.650
So my mom was an artist and my dad was an engineer.

00:19:34.269 --> 00:19:36.720
So it's kind of like you get this weird mess.

00:19:36.795 --> 00:19:37.875
But it's a gift.

00:19:37.934 --> 00:19:39.325
It's such a special gift.

00:19:39.404 --> 00:19:41.904
Did you study formally for culinary school at all?

00:19:41.904 --> 00:19:42.384
I did.

00:19:42.384 --> 00:19:43.884
I went to South Seattle community college.

00:19:43.884 --> 00:19:45.694
It was one of the top schools at the time.

00:19:45.694 --> 00:19:46.275
I went

00:19:46.275 --> 00:19:47.224
very familiar,

00:19:47.255 --> 00:19:47.484
very

00:19:47.484 --> 00:19:47.555
familiar.

00:19:47.555 --> 00:19:47.934
Yeah.

00:19:48.434 --> 00:19:48.744
Amazing.

00:19:48.815 --> 00:19:48.984
That was

00:19:48.984 --> 00:19:50.305
in the Portland area, right?

00:19:50.325 --> 00:19:50.664
Yeah.

00:19:50.704 --> 00:19:52.414
We had a year long waiting list.

00:19:52.595 --> 00:19:52.954
Yeah.

00:19:53.015 --> 00:19:53.234
Yeah.

00:19:53.234 --> 00:19:58.255
And I got in six months somehow, and I went to this thing called the winter wonderland buffet.

00:19:58.464 --> 00:19:58.595
Okay.

00:19:58.605 --> 00:20:01.634
And it was basically foods from around the world that were prepared.

00:20:01.779 --> 00:20:12.349
By all the students, they had a chocolate pastry program and a regular program and they had carvings and they had chocolate carvings and ice carvings done by the pastry shop.

00:20:12.349 --> 00:20:14.269
And oh my God, it was amazing.

00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:14.890
And I was hooked.

00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:16.460
I mean, I was just hooked.

00:20:16.490 --> 00:20:16.859
Yeah.

00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:21.640
And so I did the whole two years and then I got a bachelor's in hotel restaurant administration.

00:20:21.819 --> 00:20:22.559
That's great.

00:20:22.589 --> 00:20:22.829
Yeah.

00:20:22.829 --> 00:20:23.019
And

00:20:23.019 --> 00:20:27.109
eventually I was in Napa Valley and I was assistant manager.

00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:28.130
And one day.

00:20:28.490 --> 00:20:33.029
There was a drive by shooting and I was the manager on duty and I broke down.

00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:38.079
I had a mental breakdown and I gave my notice two weeks later and I left the business.

00:20:38.109 --> 00:20:39.619
And so it's part of my soul.

00:20:39.910 --> 00:20:44.359
It's like podcasting for me is healing, you know, culinary artists.

00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:46.240
It's all healing.

00:20:47.329 --> 00:20:49.799
So that's part of, that's part of my why, right?

00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:51.390
And that's why I love it so much.

00:20:51.529 --> 00:20:59.000
It's very addictive as, I mean, connecting people all over the world and having these conversations is so unique.

00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:01.200
You just said something that's really important.

00:21:01.210 --> 00:21:08.170
That's starting, that we're beginning to try to answer more frequently than ever before.

00:21:08.170 --> 00:21:09.460
And that is why.

00:21:09.849 --> 00:21:10.809
That's the why.

00:21:11.589 --> 00:21:13.599
I didn't know my why when I started.

00:21:13.890 --> 00:21:16.019
A lot more than they ever did before.

00:21:16.250 --> 00:21:16.549
Right?

00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:17.119
That's great.

00:21:17.410 --> 00:21:33.539
Well, I just think, maybe it's a younger generation, but I just think social media and the speed with which information is made available to us is absolutely staggering and stunning.

00:21:33.549 --> 00:21:44.680
So if a teacher says to a student to review this book or follow this recipe or whatever it is, they have to be prepared with why do I need to read that?

00:21:45.190 --> 00:21:46.750
And it's not a bad question.

00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:49.059
It's not a bad question, right?

00:21:49.250 --> 00:21:50.660
I'll give you a perfect example.

00:21:51.359 --> 00:22:06.369
For many years, the standard uniform of the jacket and the black pants or checkered pants and the clogs has been in culinary schools and many properties where you might work.

00:22:06.420 --> 00:22:10.759
and then all of a sudden there's a beautiful clog brand called dance, right?

00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:11.509
They're not cheap.

00:22:11.609 --> 00:22:14.180
They're very, I have them really expensive, right?

00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:18.460
But dance a few years ago started coming up with some really.

00:22:18.634 --> 00:22:27.444
Beautiful different colors, and maybe a black clog with a beautiful flower in the back or just something like that.

00:22:27.444 --> 00:22:27.765
Right.

00:22:27.775 --> 00:22:30.894
And it wasn't easy for me.

00:22:31.795 --> 00:22:41.414
To get some of my administrators to understand or answer the question, why can't they wear a black clog with a little flower on the back?

00:22:42.244 --> 00:22:42.714
Okay.

00:22:43.035 --> 00:22:43.265
We make the

00:22:43.644 --> 00:22:44.734
rules, right there.

00:22:44.835 --> 00:22:45.414
Cause guess what?

00:22:45.414 --> 00:22:50.765
They're going to go back into the industry and they're going to wear whatever they want or whatever the house suggests they wear.

00:22:50.785 --> 00:22:51.134
Right?

00:22:51.515 --> 00:22:53.325
So we still have decorum.

00:22:53.335 --> 00:22:56.474
We still have keep the bar as high as possible.

00:22:57.059 --> 00:23:12.440
In terms of what the highest level of standards that they might run into when they get into the industry, but I also like to be playful with the students and while those are beautiful, 225 clogs, I'm going to go ahead and let you wear them.

00:23:12.950 --> 00:23:19.940
I got them and I got hooked on them because it's support to, if I remember correctly, they have tremendous support.

00:23:20.255 --> 00:23:21.055
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:21.055 --> 00:23:24.174
For your back when you're standing on your feet all day.

00:23:24.684 --> 00:23:24.865
So it's

00:23:24.865 --> 00:23:25.484
worth it.

00:23:25.595 --> 00:23:27.984
It's worth the investment, but it is expensive.

00:23:28.775 --> 00:23:31.724
So I'm just going to move forward a little bit here.

00:23:31.795 --> 00:23:40.535
I'd love to know, and I know our listeners would love to know you have been involved in a lot of culinary organizations, American Academy of Chefs, Disciples of Discoffier.

00:23:42.335 --> 00:23:44.865
And international association of culinary professionals.

00:23:45.194 --> 00:23:51.845
Can you talk about one of those or just share a little bit about that experience and how it came to be and what it's like to be involved?

00:23:52.454 --> 00:23:56.505
Yeah, I was probably, I mean, I was a sponge early on, right?

00:23:56.545 --> 00:23:58.255
I just wanted to get my hand on.

00:23:58.365 --> 00:24:02.974
Anything taught me more and more connections.

00:24:02.974 --> 00:24:03.305
Right.

00:24:03.375 --> 00:24:15.785
And P the American culinary federation was probably the first, my father introduced me to someone who was involved with the American culinary federation in Colorado back in 1988.

00:24:15.845 --> 00:24:19.585
And he was the president of the local chapter at the time.

00:24:19.585 --> 00:24:36.444
And I didn't really understand it, but what made sense to me is that there was a an organization of like minded cooks and chefs and practitioners of the craft and so on and so forth that 20, 000 strong back then, maybe more.

00:24:37.075 --> 00:24:43.585
And that every state or many states had smaller chapters that all kind of fed into this national thing.

00:24:44.015 --> 00:24:52.384
And then, oh my gosh, there is a certification track that you can judge yourself against a set of standards, right?

00:24:52.414 --> 00:24:53.615
And, Oh, wow.

00:24:53.755 --> 00:25:02.305
I think in many ways I was motivated, challenged perhaps that my father had achieved such a high level in, in, in this craft.

00:25:02.375 --> 00:25:08.109
And so when I found the American Culinary Federation, you know, it, I just, It was kind of a brotherhood.

00:25:08.109 --> 00:25:11.910
It was kind of, I was in a fraternity in college and that was all kind of cool and stuff.

00:25:12.460 --> 00:25:17.559
And I love the kind of the history behind all of that, but the American Culinary Federation, wow.

00:25:18.019 --> 00:25:25.369
So I can do this and then there'll be these letters behind my name that say that I'm a certified executive chef.

00:25:25.380 --> 00:25:27.759
And it was really, it was just really important to me.

00:25:27.779 --> 00:25:35.309
It was important to me to be able to demonstrate To others who had achieved that already that I had this level.

00:25:35.309 --> 00:25:35.539
Right.

00:25:35.539 --> 00:25:41.329
And so today there's, I think, 14 different levels starting a CC, a certified Comey.

00:25:41.849 --> 00:25:45.940
What I love about it is that it's a set of standards that's agreed upon.

00:25:46.490 --> 00:25:47.569
They're relevant.

00:25:48.059 --> 00:25:49.069
They make sense.

00:25:49.569 --> 00:25:51.200
And you have the opportunity.

00:25:51.700 --> 00:25:54.759
To be associated with others that have achieved that, right?

00:25:54.799 --> 00:26:04.670
It was probably harder Years and years ago because we didn't have the internet so you had to schedule time to be with a good point You couldn't just email in your application and all that.

00:26:04.690 --> 00:26:25.230
So it felt like it was a harder journey, I guess So when you got that certificate, I can remember the first time I got I think the first level I achieved So you can be a member of the american culinary federation and never get certified And you could be a member of the american culinary federation And get your academic institution accredited, right?

00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:26.890
Programmatically accredited.

00:26:27.190 --> 00:26:28.990
All that stuff was super important to me.

00:26:29.509 --> 00:26:33.039
So the first level I think I achieved was called certified working chef.

00:26:33.509 --> 00:26:43.740
and it was mostly cause I didn't have all the years of experience, but when I got that certificate, Michael, I went down to the local frame shop and I got the most beautiful.

00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:45.059
I love Nate.

00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:49.150
I had elk and deer and duck flying all over the place.

00:26:49.170 --> 00:26:49.819
That's awesome.

00:26:49.819 --> 00:26:54.309
And I put that up in the restaurant and I was just so absolutely proud of it.

00:26:54.339 --> 00:26:59.299
And some organizations too, like the disciples of Escoffier.

00:26:59.910 --> 00:27:00.890
What's that about?

00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:02.279
I love the name.

00:27:02.289 --> 00:27:04.849
It's about, yeah, it's, well, there's several.

00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:07.950
It's a whole nother podcast we can talk about.

00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:08.609
Yeah, yeah, sure.

00:27:08.990 --> 00:27:09.569
We're going to wrap up.

00:27:09.609 --> 00:27:16.150
The requirements, but more than anything, it's about inviting people who have a love for food.

00:27:16.309 --> 00:27:21.089
And it's not just the disciples recognize people in the front of the house.

00:27:21.535 --> 00:27:26.075
As managers, they didn't recognize wine experts.

00:27:26.085 --> 00:27:27.615
They recognize farmers.

00:27:27.615 --> 00:27:29.825
Farmer Lee is a disciple of Escoffier.

00:27:29.884 --> 00:27:30.714
Oh, wow.

00:27:30.714 --> 00:27:32.095
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:32.154 --> 00:27:34.575
And so it's all about food.

00:27:34.585 --> 00:27:37.285
It's all about our industry.

00:27:37.494 --> 00:27:41.944
You don't have to win a certain medal or graduate from a culinary school.

00:27:42.325 --> 00:27:50.484
You are invited into the family of the disciples of Escoffier by Michelle or me or others.

00:27:50.849 --> 00:27:51.059
That's beautiful.

00:27:51.089 --> 00:28:01.109
And it's a beautiful celebration for your family, for your colleagues, pageantry, it, that to me is, it's a, it's an incredible honor.

00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:04.160
We were in New York city earlier this year.

00:28:04.230 --> 00:28:11.779
We inducted a few people into the disciples and we were at one of John George facilities, interviewed a chef that worked at Jean George.

00:28:11.779 --> 00:28:13.660
Wow.

00:28:13.660 --> 00:28:15.890
This place was so amazing.

00:28:16.529 --> 00:28:17.890
John George was real busy.

00:28:17.890 --> 00:28:22.569
We had hoped to induct him as well, but he had just opened up something in Asia.

00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:24.240
And so he just got back.

00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:29.700
He got back that night and he came to the event towards the end.

00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:37.994
He had a copy of Legue wrapped in a rubber band that he had been carrying around.

00:28:38.414 --> 00:28:58.319
He said for 30 years He undid the rubber band and put these frail pages in front of michelle and asked him to please sign This copy of legee his great grandfather's works and that is What this industry is all about that.

00:28:58.400 --> 00:28:59.650
And it's not for everyone, right?

00:28:59.650 --> 00:29:01.059
That's my world, right?

00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:01.920
That's my world.

00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:09.099
If I was a, if I was an artist and I saw a Rembrandt or a, or something that just moved me, right.

00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:11.029
I can appreciate that.

00:29:11.150 --> 00:29:18.799
If I was a major league baseball player and I was moved by things that Hank Aaron did or Willie Mays or Babe Ruth, I get that.

00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:21.410
But in my world and those around me.

00:29:22.285 --> 00:29:23.674
It's about Escoffier.

00:29:23.714 --> 00:29:24.845
It's about Karem.

00:29:24.884 --> 00:29:26.275
It's about Thomas Keller.

00:29:26.315 --> 00:29:27.704
It's about Gavin Kaysen.

00:29:27.714 --> 00:29:30.634
It's about Kelly Whitaker, Bobby Stockett.

00:29:30.704 --> 00:29:34.984
That's the stuff that just, it just makes me happy.

00:29:36.394 --> 00:29:42.305
And that's the question I was dying to ask you because you're, Kirk, you're such a humble person.

00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:43.240
Yeah.

00:29:43.329 --> 00:29:43.509
Yeah.

00:29:43.509 --> 00:29:45.849
And I am humble too, so I recognize it.

00:29:45.849 --> 00:29:45.910
Yeah.

00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:46.765
I just love chatting

00:29:46.765 --> 00:29:48.000
with you and you've got a great is thrill.

00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:49.045
You have a great podcast

00:29:49.045 --> 00:29:49.704
voice by the way.

00:29:49.704 --> 00:29:50.634
That's what people tell me.

00:29:50.634 --> 00:29:52.045
I'm working on voiceover.

00:29:52.045 --> 00:29:52.164
Very

00:29:52.164 --> 00:29:52.914
soothing.

00:29:52.914 --> 00:29:53.424
It's very sooth.

00:29:53.424 --> 00:29:54.535
You have same,

00:29:54.535 --> 00:29:57.115
I think my friend, I think my heartbeat has gone down.

00:29:57.115 --> 00:30:02.720
'cause I You have the same because I see how you can put people at ease and I do.

00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:03.000
Yeah.

00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:03.200
Or

00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:03.440
sleep.

00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:03.720
Right.

00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:04.400
I could put 'em to sleep.

00:30:04.405 --> 00:30:04.795
no

00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:07.880
I listen to the show when I go to sleep sometimes.

00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:10.089
And I listened to it while I'm commuting.

00:30:10.109 --> 00:30:11.819
It's become my favorite show.

00:30:12.009 --> 00:30:12.349
Oh, I'm

00:30:12.819 --> 00:30:14.720
so happy that it gives you some peace.

00:30:14.740 --> 00:30:19.650
And I will say truth be told, I am, I'm pretty high strong.

00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:21.220
I'm very ambitious.

00:30:21.220 --> 00:30:23.119
I'm very, Oh, you got a lot going on.

00:30:24.009 --> 00:30:24.309
Yeah.

00:30:24.329 --> 00:30:26.980
And my kids call me a cat on a hot tin roof, right?

00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:28.609
I'm just always moving.

00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:36.470
But once a week, I'm able to get up at five in the morning and spend about three hours really is just zoning in.

00:30:37.019 --> 00:30:40.000
On who I'm going to speak with in a few hours, right?

00:30:40.650 --> 00:30:43.049
And I try not to do it too early or too late.

00:30:43.049 --> 00:30:45.220
Usually I have a pretty good idea of who I'm talking to.

00:30:46.039 --> 00:30:50.579
And then for that hour and a half, I am, nothing can bother me.

00:30:50.589 --> 00:30:58.180
I, so I'm sitting right here outside of what we call the K4 kitchen, kitchen four, which is our pastry kitchen.

00:30:58.420 --> 00:30:58.750
Okay.

00:30:58.789 --> 00:31:00.569
There's chef Sarah right there waving at me.

00:31:00.569 --> 00:31:04.234
So I put a sign in the window that says, Podcast recording and session.

00:31:04.765 --> 00:31:06.105
I've got a little on air.

00:31:06.105 --> 00:31:08.035
Yeah, it's fun.

00:31:08.035 --> 00:31:08.275
Right.

00:31:08.305 --> 00:31:11.474
But sometimes the students will come by and they'll try to make me laugh.

00:31:11.474 --> 00:31:11.765
Right.

00:31:12.394 --> 00:31:18.144
Kind of do I sit in kind of a glass bubble here and you can see there's my man right there.

00:31:18.154 --> 00:31:19.115
Marco Pierre White.

00:31:19.345 --> 00:31:21.115
Most people ask about Marco Pierre.

00:31:21.234 --> 00:31:21.454
I

00:31:21.454 --> 00:31:23.454
was going to ask him to tell me a little bit.

00:31:23.454 --> 00:31:23.555
I

00:31:23.565 --> 00:31:25.444
have a fun story about him as well.

00:31:26.029 --> 00:31:28.900
And yeah, so it's just, it is humble.

00:31:28.900 --> 00:31:33.279
It just, we're just trying to help people understand how to follow their dreams.

00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:33.599
Right.

00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:35.019
It that's awesome.

00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:37.730
So I could be a carpentry school and we'd do it exactly the

00:31:37.730 --> 00:31:38.369
same way.

00:31:38.410 --> 00:31:38.750
Right.

00:31:38.819 --> 00:31:39.109
Okay.

00:31:39.109 --> 00:31:41.589
And the last question, cause I want to respect your time.

00:31:41.619 --> 00:31:46.755
What has been your proudest moment as a president, as a chef or as a podcaster?

00:31:47.335 --> 00:31:47.954
All of them.

00:31:48.005 --> 00:31:48.644
Any of them.

00:31:49.404 --> 00:31:51.255
Yeah, there's a lot of proud moments.

00:31:51.255 --> 00:31:56.464
I would be remiss if I didn't say and I'll get emotional probably, but good.

00:31:56.714 --> 00:31:57.924
I'm already emotional.

00:31:58.095 --> 00:32:03.224
So I think you have to mention how proud you are to be a parent, right?

00:32:03.714 --> 00:32:04.454
Be a husband.

00:32:04.464 --> 00:32:04.744
Sorry.

00:32:04.825 --> 00:32:05.265
Sorry.

00:32:05.265 --> 00:32:06.005
Get emotional.

00:32:06.234 --> 00:32:06.805
It's okay.

00:32:07.174 --> 00:32:09.194
Because they're a part of all this.

00:32:09.515 --> 00:32:13.265
They're apart and I, my wife never asks me to leave it at the door.

00:32:13.894 --> 00:32:14.545
She doesn't.

00:32:14.595 --> 00:32:18.644
There's things that happen every day that are insane, right?

00:32:18.644 --> 00:32:22.164
And so I have four children and four grandchildren.

00:32:22.585 --> 00:32:22.884
Okay.

00:32:22.994 --> 00:32:23.954
I love them very much.

00:32:24.144 --> 00:32:25.545
That's my pride right there.

00:32:25.545 --> 00:32:25.825
Right.

00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:38.109
But I would, I'd be an idiot if I didn't say graduation is, and no in particular graduation, every graduation is so important.

00:32:39.029 --> 00:32:40.859
People come to us from all walks of life.

00:32:40.900 --> 00:32:42.170
Some have more than others.

00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:43.650
Others have less than others.

00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:50.855
But when they get into that beautiful hall, On the campus of Colorado university, Mackey arena.

00:32:51.305 --> 00:32:52.305
We're all the same.

00:32:52.734 --> 00:32:53.605
We're all the same.

00:32:53.634 --> 00:33:01.944
It's like a, it's like a soccer game in bath or in Spain, people are screaming and yelling for each other.

00:33:01.984 --> 00:33:05.605
And we have students speak and I speak and we have farmer Lee speak.

00:33:05.605 --> 00:33:07.755
And I have a beautiful friend of mine.

00:33:07.755 --> 00:33:08.714
Her name is Sylvia.

00:33:08.755 --> 00:33:09.924
She's a opera singer.

00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:15.400
And she sings, sometimes she sings in French if Michelle Escoffier comes.

00:33:16.950 --> 00:33:18.410
That's my proudest moment.

00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:23.059
And Michael, the microphone that day is mine.

00:33:23.869 --> 00:33:24.730
No one else's.

00:33:25.150 --> 00:33:25.380
Yeah.

00:33:25.410 --> 00:33:26.079
No one else's.

00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:27.230
I tell the story.

00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:32.910
I confer upon them, the students, the graduates, their degrees or their diplomas.

00:33:33.859 --> 00:33:36.059
And we take pictures with their families.

00:33:36.059 --> 00:33:36.990
We hug their families.

00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:38.180
We hug each other.

00:33:38.970 --> 00:33:41.109
That's hands down the proudest moment.

00:33:41.309 --> 00:34:02.579
There, there are, there's other pinnacle moments when you, when we have the department of education of the state of Colorado come in and let us know that we're just, we're operating on all cylinders or our national accreditor comes in and says, after a long review that we've have 14 strengths and we're just operating at the highest level.

00:34:02.579 --> 00:34:04.569
Yeah, those are all proud moments.

00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:06.940
A lot of work goes into all of that.

00:34:06.940 --> 00:34:10.070
I'm so thankful for the teams around me for that.

00:34:10.545 --> 00:34:10.875
Yeah,

00:34:10.965 --> 00:34:18.125
a graduation, the culmination of dreams, of plans, there's nothing that beats that.

00:34:18.405 --> 00:34:19.264
that's amazing.

00:34:19.264 --> 00:34:21.045
And that's basically going to take us out.

00:34:21.045 --> 00:34:26.175
But the one thing I want to ask you is how can we support you and your community at large?

00:34:26.554 --> 00:34:28.844
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to speak in general.

00:34:28.864 --> 00:34:29.755
It's a really good question.

00:34:29.755 --> 00:34:31.005
I wasn't prepared for that.

00:34:31.005 --> 00:34:34.414
But what I would say is put food first there.

00:34:34.755 --> 00:34:36.284
It's a really tough business.

00:34:36.619 --> 00:34:38.769
It's a really tough business, but it's beautiful.

00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:48.639
Visit your local farms, visit your local restaurants that are using local farms to, to serve you.

00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:49.780
Thank people.

00:34:51.349 --> 00:34:54.969
One thing that Kelly said yesterday, and I'm just going to repeat it.

00:34:55.730 --> 00:34:59.800
He said, appreciate restaurant economics, right?

00:35:00.469 --> 00:35:01.429
It's really hard.

00:35:01.539 --> 00:35:02.269
it's really hard.

00:35:03.610 --> 00:35:06.750
Provide contributing conversation, leave more.

00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:07.929
Then you take away.

00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:11.429
Oh, that is such a beautiful takeaway.

00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:11.469
It's

00:35:11.480 --> 00:35:13.780
my new, it's my new mantra from Kelly Whitaker.

00:35:14.019 --> 00:35:14.519
Kelly.

00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:15.019
Wow.

00:35:15.380 --> 00:35:15.719
That's

00:35:15.940 --> 00:35:16.480
beautiful.

00:35:16.510 --> 00:35:18.489
That was really thought provoking.

00:35:18.619 --> 00:35:18.800
Yeah.

00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:19.090
Yeah.

00:35:19.139 --> 00:35:19.420
Yeah.

00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:20.880
Sorry about the emotion there.

00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:21.480
I love it.

00:35:21.489 --> 00:35:22.469
Cause I'm a very emotional

00:35:22.469 --> 00:35:23.219
person too.

00:35:23.269 --> 00:35:30.130
And I just want to say when I started this podcast, I had dreams of people I wanted to interview.

00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:31.639
Jose Andre.

00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:32.550
Tom Douglas.

00:35:32.925 --> 00:35:39.735
I just interviewed Tom Douglas and then I met you and I'm just like the president of the Escoffieh Institute.

00:35:40.114 --> 00:35:44.735
He has his own podcast called the ultimate dish, which you need to check out, by the way, it's incredible.

00:35:45.454 --> 00:35:48.925
And I look at my why, and this is my why.

00:35:49.349 --> 00:35:58.409
My, why is to connect to chefs, culinary artists, and people who support the chef circle that are doing something incredible with their talents.

00:35:58.679 --> 00:35:59.510
They're giving back.

00:35:59.510 --> 00:36:00.869
They're doing amazing things.

00:36:01.489 --> 00:36:04.030
And I can't thank you enough for being on the show.

00:36:04.090 --> 00:36:06.380
I can't thank Kristen enough for reaching out.

00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:13.639
I will treasure this forever and you are truly a voice for chefs and thank you for being our guest.

00:36:14.300 --> 00:36:14.889
Thank you, Michael.

00:36:14.889 --> 00:36:16.159
I appreciate the connection.

00:36:16.179 --> 00:36:17.409
I hope we can stay in touch.

00:36:17.409 --> 00:36:17.880
Definitely.

00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:18.750
Definitely.