74 Part I: Leading the Escoffier Institute: Chef Kirk Bachmann’s Culinary Legacy and Vision

WEBVTT

00:00:00.679 --> 00:00:09.558
I want to welcome Chef Kirk Bachman, campus president and provost at the August Escoffier School of Culinary Arts in Boulder, Colorado.

00:00:09.888 --> 00:00:15.819
With a passion for cooking and culinary education, Chef Bachman inspires his students and colleagues daily.

00:00:16.169 --> 00:00:19.199
So let's dive into his journey and insights.

00:00:20.155 --> 00:00:21.815
And Kirk, welcome to the show.

00:00:22.315 --> 00:00:23.394
I want to meet that guy.

00:00:23.454 --> 00:00:24.605
That's just so lovely.

00:00:24.675 --> 00:00:25.155
Thank you.

00:00:25.545 --> 00:00:26.644
Great to be here, Michael.

00:00:26.754 --> 00:00:35.054
You have a wealth of experience, an amazing background, and we're going to dive a little bit deeper into it, but I thought I really want to know.

00:00:35.054 --> 00:00:38.243
And I've listened to a lot of the ultimate dish or podcast.

00:00:38.295 --> 00:00:42.225
I've listened to some interviews on the side with farmer.

00:00:42.624 --> 00:00:43.734
That was a really good interview.

00:00:43.734 --> 00:00:44.694
Oh, Farmer Lee.

00:00:44.753 --> 00:00:45.834
Oh my gosh.

00:00:46.223 --> 00:00:47.354
What's that episode?

00:00:47.354 --> 00:00:49.404
So let's call it out for listeners here.

00:00:49.765 --> 00:00:52.005
Do you know the name of that episode by chance?

00:00:52.043 --> 00:00:55.134
It's probably Mother Nature's Rhythm.

00:00:55.225 --> 00:01:03.134
We talk to Farmer very frequently, not just the podcast, but we have a scheduled webinar every six weeks.

00:01:03.543 --> 00:01:05.274
And we've been doing this for years.

00:01:05.853 --> 00:01:20.903
And we talk about mother nature's natural rhythm because farmer Lee, just to give a little background and his family have been farming in the Huron, Ohio area of the United States for over 40 years, highs and lows, goods and bads.

00:01:21.284 --> 00:01:26.644
They had to do a lot of pivoting during the pandemic, but what's beautiful about the chef's garden.

00:01:26.644 --> 00:01:27.754
That's the name of the farm.

00:01:28.254 --> 00:01:28.694
Yeah.

00:01:28.713 --> 00:01:29.774
400 acres.

00:01:29.774 --> 00:01:30.054
Yeah.

00:01:30.269 --> 00:01:39.549
They, years and years ago, they got the advice of a wonderful female chef who suggested that they start growing what chefs want.

00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:47.109
And whether that's a zucchini, the size of your pinky or an apple that is different in some way.

00:01:47.668 --> 00:01:52.640
And, and they started doing that and they have an audience from coast to coast and around the world.

00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:54.140
When Thomas Keller.

00:01:54.634 --> 00:02:00.983
Has a beautiful 30th anniversary celebration in Napa to celebrate the French laundry.

00:02:01.224 --> 00:02:01.444
Yep.

00:02:01.444 --> 00:02:02.414
Farmer Lee's there.

00:02:02.685 --> 00:02:03.664
Farmer Lee's there.

00:02:03.664 --> 00:02:04.004
Yeah.

00:02:04.034 --> 00:02:07.983
So we talk every six weeks about regenerative farming.

00:02:08.064 --> 00:02:10.454
We talk about the life of a farmer.

00:02:10.775 --> 00:02:13.804
But more than anything, we talk about Mother Nature's natural rhythm.

00:02:13.804 --> 00:02:17.304
Meaning, hey farmer, what should I put on my menu tonight?

00:02:17.949 --> 00:02:20.409
Whatever's in season, whatever's in season.

00:02:20.419 --> 00:02:24.088
So if you ever go to the farm, they, they have a lab there.

00:02:24.088 --> 00:02:25.419
It's very educational.

00:02:25.998 --> 00:02:27.149
They have a farm stand.

00:02:27.149 --> 00:02:29.389
So it's community, everyone coming together.

00:02:29.889 --> 00:02:32.788
So I'll be there a little plug for the chef's garden.

00:02:32.788 --> 00:02:37.688
I'll be there as the MC of the roots conference, 2024.

00:02:38.805 --> 00:02:40.974
September 15th, 16th and 17th.

00:02:41.064 --> 00:02:41.314
So.

00:02:41.344 --> 00:02:42.115
Oh, great.

00:02:42.164 --> 00:02:42.544
Okay.

00:02:42.784 --> 00:02:42.965
So

00:02:42.965 --> 00:02:43.514
look us up.

00:02:44.284 --> 00:02:45.275
Fantastic.

00:02:45.844 --> 00:02:46.715
Well, let's dive in.

00:02:46.754 --> 00:02:48.645
Let's dive into your background a little bit.

00:02:48.705 --> 00:02:56.524
Um, I know that your father was a master pastry chef in Germany and you grew up with your father and your family.

00:02:56.555 --> 00:03:01.574
Can you tell us a little bit about that and kind of what led you or lead us on your culinary journey?

00:03:01.905 --> 00:03:03.884
Yeah, I think I appreciate that.

00:03:03.884 --> 00:03:11.985
I think family is, is super, super important and particularly A craft that is handed down from generation to generation.

00:03:11.995 --> 00:03:17.074
My father's story isn't terribly different than many immigrants that have come to America over the years.

00:03:17.955 --> 00:03:20.185
So I'm, I'm a fourth generation cook.

00:03:20.194 --> 00:03:25.465
If you will, I'm the first to step out of the bakery and go into the hot side of the line.

00:03:25.465 --> 00:03:26.713
But Oh, okay.

00:03:26.715 --> 00:03:28.715
As they say, but to my, my dad.

00:03:29.085 --> 00:03:30.625
And I never knew my grandfather.

00:03:30.625 --> 00:03:32.514
He was killed in the war, but my dad's.

00:03:33.099 --> 00:03:38.719
memory of just having this phenomenal childhood growing up, they were called Bohemians.

00:03:38.729 --> 00:03:44.219
So they were sort of on the border of France and Germany, call it Southeast border, right?

00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:49.139
And after the war, the borders change and people lost their homes and they lost their bakeries.

00:03:50.019 --> 00:03:52.859
And my dad's family's grandpa was gone.

00:03:53.289 --> 00:04:02.699
So grandma had four children, 30 years old, a widow and a beautiful farming family in Bavaria took them in and My father followed the trade.

00:04:02.699 --> 00:04:07.400
I think he was told to follow the trade of his father and his grandfather and his great grandfather.

00:04:08.060 --> 00:04:12.479
And at 16, like many in Europe, he started what's called a journeymanship.

00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:15.019
So yeah, that's about six years.

00:04:15.030 --> 00:04:18.418
You go from one property to the next and you learn how to trade.

00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:19.129
Okay.

00:04:19.129 --> 00:04:22.449
That's followed by an apprenticeship, which is a lot more formal.

00:04:22.899 --> 00:04:24.120
Typically three years.

00:04:24.665 --> 00:04:27.454
So in America, after nine years, you're a doctor in Germany.

00:04:27.454 --> 00:04:28.644
After nine years, you're a beef.

00:04:28.714 --> 00:04:43.925
My father was really motivated to achieve the level of what's called Meister brief master chef, because in Germany you can work in a bakery without that credential, but you cannot own a bakery even today without the credential,

00:04:44.404 --> 00:04:44.584
you

00:04:44.595 --> 00:04:46.064
have to be a master, right?

00:04:46.115 --> 00:04:46.944
So he did that.

00:04:46.975 --> 00:04:49.228
And then at 26, he.

00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:58.598
Um, told my mother who he met in a bakery in Dusseldorf that he was coming to America and that he would send for her when he was all settled in.

00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:00.218
And that's exactly what he did.

00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:19.434
He landed in Chicago with friends and others that came from Germany and, Um, worked at, he worked in many places, but the place where he really learned the next level of the craft, the economics, if you will, of business was a bakery in Chicago on Montrose called Lutz's, which is still there today.

00:05:19.613 --> 00:05:21.644
Oh, and I'll just tell a super quick story.

00:05:21.644 --> 00:05:25.154
My dad was at Lutz's kind of one of the top bakers there.

00:05:25.165 --> 00:05:28.884
And he knew because he was doing all the ordering and stuff.

00:05:28.884 --> 00:05:29.694
And he knew what.

00:05:30.175 --> 00:05:55.704
He was paying for a bag of flour and he knew what they created with that bag of flour and he knew then what the cost of Buying something that was created and so he loved the economics of it all and so he started in his spare time He'd drive around the city and just keep his eye on other bakeries See how much traffic was going in and out and so finally he stumbled upon a bakery Austin had, it had opened in 1936.

00:05:55.704 --> 00:05:59.704
It was called Ackerman's bakery, Gene Ackerman and his family opened it up.

00:05:59.714 --> 00:06:00.754
Also German immigrants.

00:06:01.449 --> 00:06:07.499
And, and my dad watched it for a long time and he finally went in one day and said, I'd like to become your partner.

00:06:08.350 --> 00:06:08.790
And Mr.

00:06:08.790 --> 00:06:10.779
Ackerman said to my dad, well, that's great.

00:06:10.839 --> 00:06:11.529
He was older.

00:06:11.589 --> 00:06:15.619
And what do you have to offer me to become a partner?

00:06:15.778 --> 00:06:17.899
And my father tells this classic story.

00:06:17.908 --> 00:06:19.410
He's on my podcast as well.

00:06:19.699 --> 00:06:19.899
Oh

00:06:19.899 --> 00:06:20.069
my

00:06:20.069 --> 00:06:20.629
gosh.

00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:21.149
He said.

00:06:21.449 --> 00:06:22.149
What episode?

00:06:22.149 --> 00:06:22.829
I'm listening.

00:06:23.110 --> 00:06:23.370
Okay.

00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:24.120
Last year.

00:06:24.170 --> 00:06:24.759
I'll look it up.

00:06:24.889 --> 00:06:27.350
But he, he said, this is what I have to offer you.

00:06:27.899 --> 00:06:29.649
My hands and God bless Mr.

00:06:29.649 --> 00:06:31.199
Ackerman took my dad in and.

00:06:31.954 --> 00:06:37.365
And my dad and mom ran Ackerman's bakery for a number of years in Chicago until he had an opportunity.

00:06:37.394 --> 00:06:39.875
We were very young, my sister and I at the time.

00:06:40.514 --> 00:06:49.345
Then we had an opportunity with other German immigrants to move to Colorado and buy something bigger, a hotel and restaurant.

00:06:49.425 --> 00:07:02.223
And, so my parents were in one area of Colorado and aunt and uncle, Joe and Annalisa, they were in another mountain town in Colorado and James and Gisela were in another mountain town and Kirsten ate it.

00:07:02.468 --> 00:07:07.819
Remained in Chicago and and it's just the way people did things 60 years ago, right?

00:07:08.288 --> 00:07:09.819
It's they helped each other.

00:07:09.829 --> 00:07:11.168
They coached each other.

00:07:11.168 --> 00:07:15.408
They loved each other They're still friends today this group, right?

00:07:15.779 --> 00:07:16.620
My father's 88.

00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:27.649
My mom's 82 His master chef jacket still hangs TV room, but you know, what's really interesting when just like Kelly yesterday, when it comes to humility and genuine, just,

00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:28.209
yeah,

00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:30.649
just genuine pride.

00:07:30.750 --> 00:07:37.533
When we moved from Chicago to Colorado, I was young, I was probably 13, 14.

00:07:37.875 --> 00:07:39.735
I'd done some work with my dad.

00:07:39.735 --> 00:07:45.574
I'd done some work in Germany with my uncle, but I thought I was going to play center field for the Cubs like many people do.

00:07:45.584 --> 00:07:45.964
Right.

00:07:46.043 --> 00:07:48.244
And so I was pushing myself away from the industry.

00:07:48.245 --> 00:07:57.194
But as we're unpacking some of my parents things, I stumble upon this scroll and I open it up and I knew what it was right away.

00:07:57.194 --> 00:07:58.964
Cause I was a little bit of a student of the craft.

00:07:58.964 --> 00:08:00.314
It was his Meister brief.

00:08:00.314 --> 00:08:02.134
It was his certification.

00:08:02.675 --> 00:08:08.324
From Dusseldorf in 1968, 58, 1958, becoming a master chef.

00:08:08.324 --> 00:08:10.985
And he'd never told us he didn't hang it on the wall.

00:08:11.035 --> 00:08:11.384
Oh my

00:08:11.384 --> 00:08:12.035
gosh.

00:08:12.103 --> 00:08:13.435
But guess who hung it on the wall?

00:08:14.285 --> 00:08:15.403
This guy hung it on the wall.

00:08:15.454 --> 00:08:15.625
Yeah.

00:08:15.634 --> 00:08:16.473
That's amazing.

00:08:16.625 --> 00:08:16.814
Yeah.

00:08:16.814 --> 00:08:23.605
So, you know, so I grew up in, I think I probably spent a lot more time in the kitchen then through high school.

00:08:23.944 --> 00:08:25.245
We had a small hotel.

00:08:25.764 --> 00:08:28.884
And there's a lot that goes into the operations of a hotel.

00:08:29.514 --> 00:08:32.965
And my father's influence on me was all about mise en place.

00:08:33.644 --> 00:08:36.744
We would be ready for a busy Saturday night, true story.

00:08:36.744 --> 00:08:41.303
And he'd pull me aside and ask me what I would do if the ice machine broke down.

00:08:41.543 --> 00:08:44.214
He was just always about critical thinking, planning.

00:08:44.794 --> 00:08:49.125
That's why baking and pastry work was so important to him because he

00:08:49.264 --> 00:08:52.075
I'm less of a baker, but more of a cook, I think.

00:08:53.105 --> 00:08:55.004
But you could apply it to any discipline, right?

00:08:55.004 --> 00:08:56.653
So

00:08:57.034 --> 00:09:04.323
then what was really important to my family, my parents was that I got an education that they didn't write.

00:09:04.354 --> 00:09:08.975
And I mentioned all those people that, you know, moved out and bought their own hotels.

00:09:09.433 --> 00:09:11.225
So the one aunt and uncle were in Oregon.

00:09:11.225 --> 00:09:13.695
So that's where I went right after high school graduation.

00:09:13.705 --> 00:09:18.904
And I spent time in Oregon, ended up going to the university of Oregon and Eugene.

00:09:19.309 --> 00:09:19.480
Yep.

00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:26.049
Worked in the restaurant business while I was there, came back to Colorado after that and worked alongside my dad.

00:09:26.049 --> 00:09:30.769
And he was still, he still wanted me to get more education.

00:09:31.565 --> 00:09:37.054
There was a very tiny culinary school back in Portland, Western, so I went there.

00:09:37.404 --> 00:09:37.794
Yeah.

00:09:37.794 --> 00:09:39.595
And, and can I just tell you Michael?

00:09:39.595 --> 00:09:39.774
Hmm.

00:09:40.075 --> 00:09:40.195
Sure.

00:09:40.284 --> 00:09:43.014
I had such a good time culinary school.

00:09:43.014 --> 00:09:43.080
Oh, I love hearing that.

00:09:43.644 --> 00:09:44.394
Oh my God.

00:09:44.544 --> 00:09:50.585
Tell us why it was so, I felt somewhat familiar, right?

00:09:50.585 --> 00:09:53.465
I, 'cause I cooked, I wasn't afraid.

00:09:53.904 --> 00:09:54.115
Yeah.

00:09:54.115 --> 00:09:54.715
But I just.

00:09:55.809 --> 00:10:01.200
I'd gone to the university to try to do something different.

00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:03.669
I studied international business.

00:10:03.940 --> 00:10:05.899
I got a minor in German.

00:10:05.899 --> 00:10:07.190
That was really easy for me.

00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:12.859
I thought at one point I had a professor, a professor of political history, and I just loved him.

00:10:13.345 --> 00:10:14.313
Political science.

00:10:14.844 --> 00:10:17.105
And I wanted to become an interpreter at the UN.

00:10:17.115 --> 00:10:18.453
That's what I wanted to do.

00:10:18.904 --> 00:10:20.394
And I set my sights on that.

00:10:20.394 --> 00:10:21.424
I took the right classes.

00:10:22.164 --> 00:10:24.193
And then one day he was my counselor as well.

00:10:24.193 --> 00:10:31.573
One day you told me that, Hey, I forgot to tell you that someone has to die before you, you know, can get a job at the UN.

00:10:31.634 --> 00:10:37.085
I tried, I came out of the university, like so many other people, just like, maybe I can do this.

00:10:37.085 --> 00:10:38.014
Maybe I can do that.

00:10:38.514 --> 00:10:43.803
And then I went to culinary school and the job offers were everywhere.

00:10:44.469 --> 00:10:49.639
Weston hotel, this private, the university club in downtown Portland and Hilton hotel.

00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:57.429
It just, I felt like this is the greatest thing in the world that this industry needs people like me.

00:10:57.558 --> 00:11:02.519
It needs people like me, my dad and I, and my family and I, we bounced back and forth a few times, right?

00:11:02.519 --> 00:11:08.289
Because I was loving learning, running a family business, a family restaurant.

00:11:08.659 --> 00:11:11.269
We named that restaurant Joseph's after my father.

00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:17.100
We introduced European cuisine to the mountains of Colorado, and it was just absolutely lovely.

00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:21.019
But I was always being pulled to, I'll give you an example back then.

00:11:21.029 --> 00:11:21.929
No internet, right?

00:11:22.110 --> 00:11:24.470
But I read magazines constantly.

00:11:25.090 --> 00:11:30.600
We'd close the restaurant and I'd rewrite menus at night and food and wine was a relatively newer.

00:11:30.995 --> 00:11:32.544
Magazine at that time.

00:11:32.544 --> 00:11:32.865
Right.

00:11:33.313 --> 00:11:41.835
And they did a feature on this chef named Charlie Trotter who happened to be doing super, super cool things in Chicago.

00:11:41.894 --> 00:11:42.323
Right.

00:11:42.394 --> 00:11:54.024
And so I wrote Charlie Trotter a letter and I said, I would love to hang your menu in my restaurant here in Colorado.

00:11:55.054 --> 00:11:55.705
And guess what?

00:11:56.355 --> 00:11:57.345
He responded.

00:11:57.934 --> 00:11:59.024
He sent me a menu.

00:12:00.184 --> 00:12:01.274
I still have it today.

00:12:01.554 --> 00:12:02.304
It's framed.

00:12:03.094 --> 00:12:05.054
It says keep on cooking, Charlie Trotter.

00:12:05.735 --> 00:12:06.274
Wow.

00:12:06.323 --> 00:12:09.345
And he, and that menus, you can't see here because it's around.

00:12:09.345 --> 00:12:09.875
It's with you.

00:12:10.384 --> 00:12:12.075
It's with me everywhere I go.

00:12:12.144 --> 00:12:12.664
I love it.

00:12:12.725 --> 00:12:14.245
And I had a lot of those menus.

00:12:14.315 --> 00:12:19.115
A lot of those messages from the little Nell and Aspen and some other restaurants around the country.

00:12:19.203 --> 00:12:19.985
Wolfgang Puck.

00:12:20.474 --> 00:12:24.543
My parents picked that one up for me in LA from Spago.

00:12:24.625 --> 00:12:28.203
So magazines and menus.

00:12:28.654 --> 00:12:32.039
There was another article in food and wine It was a cover.

00:12:32.458 --> 00:12:35.339
Do you remember when Southwest Cuisine was all the rage?

00:12:35.690 --> 00:12:35.889
Yeah.

00:12:35.889 --> 00:12:44.418
Dean Fiering in Dallas and restaurants like Baby Ruth and Mark Miller in Santa Fe, the Coyote Cafe.

00:12:44.710 --> 00:12:44.889
Mm hmm.

00:12:44.899 --> 00:12:47.058
Well, anyway, this particular episode issue.

00:12:47.794 --> 00:12:55.203
Was kind of a rustic plate on, on a table with, I think it was a big old T bone steak or something like that.

00:12:55.203 --> 00:12:58.193
It just looked amazing with sea salt on it and all of that.

00:12:58.524 --> 00:13:02.985
But they took a bunch of herbs, rosemary, thyme, name it.

00:13:03.850 --> 00:13:07.049
And wrapped it up in like some rough twine.

00:13:07.059 --> 00:13:07.309
Right.

00:13:07.309 --> 00:13:08.899
And just threw it on top of that steak.

00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:15.080
I carried that magazine page crumpled up in my books for years.

00:13:15.149 --> 00:13:16.409
And I know I still have it somewhere.

00:13:16.409 --> 00:13:17.299
I just can't find it.

00:13:17.789 --> 00:13:19.210
But that magazine.

00:13:19.615 --> 00:13:23.725
motivated me to start exploring Southwest cuisine back then.

00:13:23.894 --> 00:13:28.724
So much that I was, I was working at the Benson hotel in Portland, Oregon.

00:13:29.254 --> 00:13:33.164
I was actually working the front of the house, but we did gear down service back then.

00:13:33.563 --> 00:13:34.504
Explain that for everyone.

00:13:34.654 --> 00:13:37.644
So gear down services, basically cart service, right?

00:13:37.744 --> 00:13:40.745
So somebody orders a Caesar salad.

00:13:40.745 --> 00:13:52.203
So rather than just bringing it out to them, The server or the captain or the cook will come out or the maitre d will come out with the cart and just prepare the dressing in front of the guest dressing in.

00:13:52.205 --> 00:13:52.984
And it's beautiful.

00:13:52.984 --> 00:13:56.855
So we did all kinds of things, cherries, jubilee, and all of

00:13:56.855 --> 00:13:57.749
them

00:13:57.749 --> 00:13:59.354
in the dining room.

00:13:59.354 --> 00:14:01.455
It was a show, right?

00:14:01.953 --> 00:14:05.174
And so I'll never forget Xavier Bowser was the chef there.

00:14:05.184 --> 00:14:06.524
It's been there 40 years.

00:14:06.708 --> 00:14:08.828
Swiss ran an immaculate kitchen.

00:14:08.828 --> 00:14:09.549
It was amazing.

00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:15.450
So of course this little guy shows up and I'm like, Hey, it was a very continental, the London grill, right?

00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:17.318
Very continental menu.

00:14:17.340 --> 00:14:17.669
Right.

00:14:18.158 --> 00:14:20.470
And so I was like, I saw this recipe.

00:14:20.470 --> 00:14:22.599
It's a, it's an enchilada.

00:14:22.649 --> 00:14:24.509
It's a lobster enchilada.

00:14:24.948 --> 00:14:25.818
Here's what I'm thinking.

00:14:25.818 --> 00:14:30.159
We could do this lobster enchilada with a beautiful Northwest mole on the plate.

00:14:30.438 --> 00:14:31.649
I think people will like it.

00:14:32.029 --> 00:14:34.639
He laughed and the Swiss chefs in the back laughed.

00:14:35.419 --> 00:14:37.159
But they did it, they put it on the menu.

00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:39.600
It ended up being an appetizer, but it was fun.

00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:40.460
It was delicious.

00:14:40.470 --> 00:14:41.889
It was absolutely delicious.

00:14:43.220 --> 00:14:46.179
For me, I'm addicted to your podcast.

00:14:46.269 --> 00:14:51.999
The guests that you have on are just melting my heart and connecting to my soul.

00:14:52.389 --> 00:15:01.039
I yesterday at Kelly Whitaker, who's more local celebrity, but he's got seven restaurants with his wife, Erica, here in Colorado.

00:15:01.479 --> 00:15:02.619
He's from Tulsa.

00:15:03.149 --> 00:15:08.818
He's done a stint in Seattle, LA, Italy, and his restaurants are amazing, right?

00:15:08.948 --> 00:15:11.470
One of his restaurants got us through the pandemic, right?

00:15:11.470 --> 00:15:19.339
So there's this just crazy connection of you, you helped us at the scariest time in our lives, right?

00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:19.919
Right.

00:15:20.499 --> 00:15:23.469
But he, he and I chatted yesterday for quite a while.

00:15:24.344 --> 00:15:34.684
And as I sat there listening to him and he was a talker, he was a storyteller and he said some super, super cool things around.

00:15:35.105 --> 00:15:35.865
And you'll love this.

00:15:35.865 --> 00:15:39.355
One of the things he said was know the rules you're going to break.

00:15:39.424 --> 00:15:42.544
The rules are going to break, right?

00:15:42.583 --> 00:15:48.924
So I'm not a rule breaker, never have been, but I've been thinking about that a lot, right?

00:15:49.644 --> 00:15:56.125
So, for example, years ago, if you went to culinary school and.

00:15:56.345 --> 00:16:00.225
You asked a student to complete a technique for you, grilling,

00:16:01.414 --> 00:16:01.634
basting,

00:16:01.735 --> 00:16:05.404
poaching, whatever it is, it, it had to follow certain criteria.

00:16:05.404 --> 00:16:13.974
There was a very defined rubric, whether it was a French rubric or a German rubric or a Swiss rubric, that's the way you had to do it.

00:16:14.024 --> 00:16:14.375
Right.

00:16:14.903 --> 00:16:17.475
And today, so those were the rules, right?

00:16:17.504 --> 00:16:24.509
And today, I don't know that we're necessarily breaking the rules, but I I don't ask my chef instructors to follow the rules.

00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:26.938
I ask them to be facilitators of knowledge.

00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:29.309
I want you to lead with food.

00:16:29.629 --> 00:16:34.000
I want you to listen to your students and no one gets a zero, right?

00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:34.990
Unless they don't show up.

00:16:35.009 --> 00:16:40.039
Sometimes people misinterpret things, but yet what they've executed is absolutely lovely.

00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:43.448
So you've got to, you got to build on that, right?

00:16:43.659 --> 00:16:43.799
Yeah.

00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:47.710
Our students don't go into the industry.

00:16:47.984 --> 00:16:51.453
They're not asked to do it the way Chef Pierre told them to do it.

00:16:52.033 --> 00:16:52.203
They're

00:16:52.203 --> 00:16:56.203
asked to do it the way the restaurant likes to serve it to their guests.

00:16:56.345 --> 00:16:58.904
So it's more about the techniques than the recipe, right?

00:16:58.914 --> 00:17:00.014
It's the techniques.

00:17:00.114 --> 00:17:00.333
Interesting.

00:17:00.335 --> 00:17:06.575
So, even if they did a grill, And you didn't really care for the sauce or the presentation.

00:17:07.035 --> 00:17:08.664
You take little things as you go.

00:17:08.674 --> 00:17:14.444
One, one thing that Kelly said yesterday to me that I really want to kind of pass along to others.

00:17:14.673 --> 00:17:14.923
Sure.

00:17:14.923 --> 00:17:16.515
He said, and I wrote it down over here.

00:17:16.515 --> 00:17:25.075
He said, he said a lot of really good things, but he said, leave more than you take away, leave more than you take away and young cooks.

00:17:25.154 --> 00:17:28.694
Probably there's no book on how to do this.

00:17:28.694 --> 00:17:28.994
Right.

00:17:29.294 --> 00:17:29.433
Right.

00:17:29.463 --> 00:17:30.763
I think I probably took a.

00:17:31.259 --> 00:17:32.710
Away more than I left.

00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:33.069
Right.

00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:37.500
I learned how to do certain things geared on service, all of that at that at that place.

00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:40.789
And I learned something else at this golf club and I learned something else over there.

00:17:41.009 --> 00:17:47.009
But my new message to young people today is definitely going to be leave more than you take away.

00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:52.859
What I mean by that is or what Kelly means by that too is bring your best every single day.

00:17:53.375 --> 00:17:58.964
And try to serve your guests the best you possibly can and leave that legacy, leave that memory.

00:17:59.464 --> 00:18:04.644
So that when you move on to the next place, people will say, Hey, do you remember when Michael was here?

00:18:04.644 --> 00:18:08.424
Do you remember the way he used to kind of talk to our guests and stuff?

00:18:08.854 --> 00:18:10.875
That that's really a beautiful thing.

00:18:10.875 --> 00:18:11.214
Right?

00:18:11.214 --> 00:18:11.773
And.

00:18:12.115 --> 00:18:13.564
But they got the grill, right?

00:18:13.974 --> 00:18:14.255
Yeah.

00:18:14.325 --> 00:18:15.365
I think we're okay.

00:18:15.454 --> 00:18:16.295
Break some rules.

00:18:16.434 --> 00:18:18.535
I've really become hooked on the ultimate dish.

00:18:18.575 --> 00:18:25.785
I mean, the guests that you have, cadence that you have, the pace, all these things are really powerful.

00:18:26.115 --> 00:18:29.154
A lot of people believe that you speak quick in a podcast.

00:18:29.173 --> 00:18:35.134
And I don't believe that because I believe if you do that, you miss the story and you don't miss the story.

00:18:35.460 --> 00:18:48.319
You can act, and every time I hear an interview with you, I've listened to probably 10 in the past couple of weeks, because I was just fascinated, both you being interviewed and you interviewing others on The Ultimate Dish.

00:18:48.699 --> 00:18:53.809
You create these stories, you tell the stories, but you also are a conductor of stories.

00:18:54.315 --> 00:18:55.503
And that's so powerful.

00:18:55.513 --> 00:18:57.734
There's not a lot of podcasters that do that.

00:18:57.934 --> 00:18:58.493
How do you do

00:18:58.494 --> 00:18:58.855
that?

00:18:59.263 --> 00:19:00.054
That's interesting.

00:19:00.064 --> 00:19:07.954
And And I don't know that there's an SOP for it or a certain way that we envision this.

00:19:07.974 --> 00:19:11.124
It just sort of almost serendipitously fell into place.

00:19:11.523 --> 00:19:14.354
I was just as nervous as the first guests I had, right?

00:19:14.365 --> 00:19:14.724
Sure.

00:19:14.904 --> 00:19:15.784
What are we going to talk about?

00:19:16.365 --> 00:19:31.084
So in my life, Whenever I thought something was going to provide some anxiety or whether I was playing in a baseball game in high school, I knew that if I prepared as much as I possibly could, the cards will just fall where they fall, right?

00:19:31.094 --> 00:19:41.924
If I, people get nervous when they're not prepared, anxiety, I tell my son all the time, he's a little bit of a baseball prodigy and he tells me that he's nervous.

00:19:42.690 --> 00:19:45.359
And I say, that's okay, because I know you've done the work.

00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:46.900
I know you're prepared.

00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:48.269
Anxiety is okay.

00:19:48.329 --> 00:19:48.930
Throw up.

00:19:48.950 --> 00:19:49.869
It's okay.

00:19:50.269 --> 00:19:50.920
It's okay.

00:19:51.199 --> 00:20:00.599
But if you're not practicing and you didn't study the math before the homework or the test the next day, that's nerves and you should have nerves because you're not ready.

00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:01.309
You're not ready.

00:20:01.740 --> 00:20:06.009
So our recipe or our technique, I should say, sorry, Auguste, is.

00:20:06.224 --> 00:20:08.224
Michael, we never get political.

00:20:08.345 --> 00:20:11.355
We never get, we don't even really get philosophical.

00:20:11.424 --> 00:20:14.503
We certainly don't get religious or controversial.

00:20:14.984 --> 00:20:19.324
We do a lot of work on the guest and we tell them in advance.

00:20:19.473 --> 00:20:25.634
The team that we work with, Noel, Kristen, tell me more agency in Puerto Rico, incredible people.

00:20:25.634 --> 00:20:25.924
And I work

00:20:25.924 --> 00:20:27.104
with

00:20:27.105 --> 00:20:29.575
a tremendous marketing and admissions team.

00:20:29.869 --> 00:20:30.720
at Escoffier.

00:20:30.740 --> 00:20:33.659
They're based in Chicago, Tom Erhart, Sarah Larson.

00:20:33.659 --> 00:20:35.170
I mean, just great people.

00:20:35.259 --> 00:20:38.339
And there's always, again, food first.

00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:41.440
And there's always this thought, just make it about the guest.

00:20:41.450 --> 00:20:44.210
So we do as much research as we possibly can.

00:20:44.890 --> 00:20:45.920
And then we.

00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:53.329
Put together a script, which the funny thing is we provide the script to the guests and I could tell that they rarely review it.

00:20:53.398 --> 00:20:56.819
A few have, and they've made edits, which I always appreciate, right?

00:20:56.849 --> 00:20:57.730
Oh, I always do.

00:20:57.769 --> 00:20:58.868
Let's not talk about that.

00:20:58.888 --> 00:20:59.680
Let's not do this.

00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:00.109
Yeah.

00:21:00.829 --> 00:21:08.429
And then I always, there's always a fun intro, which kind of relaxes people, but then I always just let them know that I'll just follow them.

00:21:08.449 --> 00:21:10.648
Listen, there's a script, but.

00:21:11.035 --> 00:21:17.304
You know, if you want to run with a cool story that brings back a memory, I'll just follow you.

00:21:18.305 --> 00:21:20.515
And it's really, it's really worked out.

00:21:20.585 --> 00:21:25.414
Katrina Markoff from Vogue Chocolat, uh, one of my all time favorite interviews.

00:21:25.423 --> 00:21:26.413
She was so That was a

00:21:26.413 --> 00:21:28.734
question I was going to have, so we might as well get into

00:21:28.894 --> 00:21:29.134
it.

00:21:30.144 --> 00:21:31.605
She was just so real.

00:21:31.625 --> 00:21:33.684
And I've known Katrina for a long time.

00:21:34.005 --> 00:21:39.003
In the early days when she started Vogue Chocolat in Chicago, she's a Le Cordon Bleu Paris grad.

00:21:39.253 --> 00:21:40.683
Which is so much.

00:21:41.339 --> 00:21:45.789
She's so much the, the profile of a culinary student today, right?

00:21:45.869 --> 00:21:46.190
Okay.

00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:58.109
She, she tried traditional college, had a passion for food, tried that, and here she has a, an incredible empire of some of the most beautiful chocolate in the world, right?

00:21:58.138 --> 00:21:58.878
Wow.

00:21:58.959 --> 00:22:00.419
She was, how do I say it?

00:22:00.430 --> 00:22:03.019
She, first of all, she was so genuine.

00:22:03.615 --> 00:22:06.255
She was unorganized.

00:22:06.394 --> 00:22:09.734
She kept shifting and asking her team where she should sit.

00:22:09.734 --> 00:22:14.794
And I, I just watched in awe because she was so passionate.

00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:16.170
Beautiful.

00:22:16.259 --> 00:22:16.650
Oh, I love it.

00:22:16.650 --> 00:22:18.089
In control of herself.

00:22:18.269 --> 00:22:18.569
Yeah.

00:22:18.630 --> 00:22:19.109
But yet

00:22:19.369 --> 00:22:19.940
playful.

00:22:19.940 --> 00:22:20.690
Whimsical.

00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:21.230
Right.

00:22:21.378 --> 00:22:23.284
She, she, it didn't matter that the camera.

00:22:23.289 --> 00:22:24.409
The best guest in the

00:22:24.409 --> 00:22:24.799
world.

00:22:25.309 --> 00:22:26.089
Yeah, she was great.

00:22:26.089 --> 00:22:26.839
She was just great.

00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:27.769
Bobby Stuckey.

00:22:28.099 --> 00:22:28.220
Yeah.

00:22:28.220 --> 00:22:28.700
Who's here?

00:22:28.700 --> 00:22:30.409
Michelle Esca was lovely.

00:22:30.464 --> 00:22:31.003
Oh my gosh.

00:22:31.055 --> 00:22:31.644
Right, right.

00:22:31.984 --> 00:22:32.565
Oh my gosh.

00:22:33.049 --> 00:22:34.009
So incredible.

00:22:34.009 --> 00:22:34.220
Yeah.

00:22:34.220 --> 00:22:34.845
We've really had some.

00:22:36.549 --> 00:22:41.339
Philip Tessier, who has a beautiful restaurant in California.

00:22:41.638 --> 00:22:46.159
He was the first American to podium at the Baku D'Or and he got it.

00:22:46.159 --> 00:22:47.709
Gosh, he was so eloquent.

00:22:47.709 --> 00:22:50.749
And so Gavin Kaysen, Minnesota.

00:22:51.170 --> 00:22:51.950
So wonderful.

00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:54.269
Just, yeah, we've just really been fortunate.

00:22:54.410 --> 00:22:55.319
Kristen Kish.

00:22:55.739 --> 00:22:56.499
Oh my God.

00:22:57.788 --> 00:22:59.579
And I think you said you listened to that one.

00:22:59.579 --> 00:23:00.588
Um,

00:23:00.589 --> 00:23:02.419
Nancy Silverton, Kristen Kish.

00:23:02.538 --> 00:23:02.808
Yeah.

00:23:02.808 --> 00:23:07.048
So Kristen was a student at LeCordon Bleu in Chicago while I was there.

00:23:07.118 --> 00:23:09.038
I'd be lying if I said I knew her.

00:23:09.509 --> 00:23:10.689
I know all my students.

00:23:10.689 --> 00:23:13.798
We had 2000 students back then, but I stayed in touch with her.

00:23:13.798 --> 00:23:15.499
She spoke at graduation one year.

00:23:15.499 --> 00:23:16.409
She was amazing.

00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:27.628
And I, I never thought that we'd be able to connect with her because of her stardom and her fame right now, but God, she couldn't have been more just kind and just really great.

00:23:27.630 --> 00:23:29.069
So I love it when

00:23:29.069 --> 00:23:33.220
people open up and say things that you don't expect.

00:23:33.714 --> 00:23:36.115
And that, that's why I have a script too.

00:23:36.164 --> 00:23:42.704
I hired a writing coach for my podcast in the very beginning because I didn't really understand how to approach it.

00:23:42.794 --> 00:23:44.614
And she gave me some really great insight.

00:23:44.614 --> 00:23:46.753
And one of the biggest tips was so simple.

00:23:47.234 --> 00:23:49.263
Imagine you're writing a book, right?

00:23:49.724 --> 00:23:52.624
If you're writing a book, you look at the table of contents, your podcast.

00:23:53.734 --> 00:23:55.344
Interview can be like the table of contents.

00:23:55.384 --> 00:23:56.653
Just kind of navigate through that.

00:23:56.713 --> 00:23:57.394
You know what I did?

00:23:57.473 --> 00:24:04.003
I got obsessed with my 66 cookbooks and I pulled them open and I started looking at the table of contents of the cookbooks.

00:24:04.003 --> 00:24:05.034
I'm like, that doesn't work.

00:24:05.044 --> 00:24:09.614
But then I looked at the storytelling ones and I'm like, Oh my gosh, there was magic there.

00:24:09.888 --> 00:24:10.069
Right.

00:24:10.069 --> 00:24:12.730
And that's how voice for chefs evolved.

00:24:13.719 --> 00:24:15.529
Like you said, I mean, it's the storytelling.

00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:16.128
Right.

00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:24.159
But some people too, like Katrina, a little bit, people have emotional episodes that occur in their life.

00:24:24.269 --> 00:24:32.269
And when some are really open to being vulnerable and transparent about that, you like, and that's where I just shut up.

00:24:33.179 --> 00:24:34.089
They clearly.

00:24:34.454 --> 00:24:34.914
Want to talk.

00:24:34.964 --> 00:24:35.734
That's all script.

00:24:35.734 --> 00:24:35.875
You're

00:24:35.875 --> 00:24:36.234
done.

00:24:36.404 --> 00:24:36.795
Yeah.

00:24:36.795 --> 00:24:37.045
Yeah.

00:24:37.045 --> 00:24:38.875
It was so real yesterday.

00:24:38.884 --> 00:24:44.984
He was real honest at one point He was like he was just expressing his appreciation because he's hard to get a hold of right?

00:24:44.984 --> 00:24:45.144
But he

00:24:45.144 --> 00:24:45.784
wasn't

00:24:45.785 --> 00:24:58.234
he said he was so glad that he found the time to chat because he needed to chat he needed get it to kind of reflect a little bit about what he'd gone through and most of it's great, right?

00:24:58.275 --> 00:25:07.044
Michelin and James Boone and all of that, but he hadn't had a chance to just breathe and talk about his lovely wife and his children and his teams.

00:25:07.045 --> 00:25:07.384
Right.

00:25:07.423 --> 00:25:10.034
And so we just, we just let them go.

00:25:11.153 --> 00:25:14.314
It feels like you're reminding me of something as podcasters.

00:25:14.364 --> 00:25:21.095
I feel like we're coaches, we're counselors, we're, we're storytellers, but our role.

00:25:21.609 --> 00:25:28.099
In my mind, the reason I started voice for chefs was because when the pandemic hit, people were losing their jobs.

00:25:28.210 --> 00:25:31.009
And I had this voice in my head that said, chefs need a voice.

00:25:31.929 --> 00:25:34.700
And it became that now that's what it became about.

00:25:34.700 --> 00:25:40.890
It's became honoring them, helping them share their stories and coaching them in.

00:25:41.180 --> 00:25:43.930
Technology and getting prepared and all those kinds of things

00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:46.130
that, and sometimes they don't even know what their story is.

00:25:46.130 --> 00:25:50.009
They just, yeah, just need to find the time to chat about it.

00:25:50.029 --> 00:25:52.799
We call that on our business, we call that mise en place.

00:25:53.269 --> 00:25:56.548
Kelly brought that up too, that mise en place is really important.

00:25:56.549 --> 00:26:02.519
I don't care if you're an artist that's about to step up to the canvas or you're a carpenter about to put it.

00:26:03.179 --> 00:26:05.638
Put the frame on a house or you're a cook.

00:26:05.769 --> 00:26:08.469
News and applause is super, super important.

00:26:08.469 --> 00:26:10.209
It's important to teachers as well.

00:26:10.679 --> 00:26:16.089
And any student can tell if an instructor or professor is not ready.

00:26:16.595 --> 00:26:19.444
It's not ready to teach, right.

00:26:19.454 --> 00:26:20.654
To facilitate learning.

00:26:20.654 --> 00:26:23.644
So yeah, really good themes, really good themes.

00:26:23.865 --> 00:26:24.875
That's so interesting.

00:26:25.275 --> 00:26:41.734
Don't miss part two, where we reconnect with chef Kirk Bachman, president of the August Escoffier Institute to delve deeper into his journey through education, cooking competitions, and the stories of his culinary students.