Chef Andrea Murdoch: 0:53

How old was I? 29? Now the age doesn't matter. I was in my 20s I was living in Milwaukee, Wisconsin with my then husband, you know,we had our stuff just like every relationship does. But some of the stuff included psychological warfare. Never ever, ever, ever raised the hand to me. But that guilt that shame that gaslighting, the will, you don't really care about me if all of that stuff was was definitely going on. And I'm somebody who loves hard, I care deeply. So if someone's not doing all right,and I care about them, I'm definitely guilty of trying too hard to be there for them. And I have absolutely learned better balance and, and boundaries as well. Since that relationship ended, but But yeah, it was, we were we're probably looking at the last year that we were together before we decided to separate and then file for divorce. But I, I was on a on a personal journey, a cultural journey. And I think that was going to naturally happen. It does for all of us adopted kids.And it's come up in different ways throughout my life. But the way that it came up during such a turbulent marriage was finding grounding, finding who I was.Because for the longest time, I was identifying as this man's girlfriend or partner is man's wife, a chef, but I was always working for somebody else on to say that, uh, you know, a light bulb went on, or, you know,somebody flipped the switch or whatever it was. And as I was exploring, putting a business plan together for a specifically South American Latino restaurant, I wanted to understand the origins like why is South America different from Central America from North America? You know, aside from the obvious, noticeable things.And when I was doing that research, I kept coming back to indigeneity Oh, the indigenous people of the Andes, the indigenous people of this country, the indigenous people here, I started realizing Well,shit, I think I might be more more indigenous than than Latino. Or, because another thing that a lot of folks don't know is a lot, a lot of Latinos are not huge fans of mine.Because not because I'm adopted,but the result is that I'm not bilingual anymore. I have a certain amount of Spanish that I've retained or relearned,especially for kitchen purposes,and I can tour around the country and be be okay order at restaurants. I can't sit I could not do this interview in Spanish however. And so I just started gravitating more and more to this identity that felt a lot more like home, a lot more comfortable, a lot more rooted and a lot more just me, and when you're, you know, 2028 29 years old facing divorce. And I met my husband at the time when we were in college. So I mean, we were kids, we didn't we didn't know our asses from our elbows. And yeah, it was just, it's just one of those crazy journeys where,okay, this thing happened, I'm going to do this to, to feel better for me, it's not buying a, you know, buying something,it's okay, I'm gonna make food.I just I needed something good to come out of what was happening in my personal life.And so I went full board with exploring who I am as a human being. And I did that through the route of cooking and being a chef. And that's the short version of how I became an indigenous chef.

Michael Dugan: 4:43

That is a truly an amazing story. And I've read a lot of your writings. You know, you're also an author, and you've authored cookbooks,you've authored articles. I call out to two of my heroes, our chef Mimi, lan and Jensen, chef Jenson Cummings from Best Served Podcasts. And on Best Served Podcast, I saw the article that you wrote, and that was really powerful about your story. So you talked about becoming a chef, did you study under anybody? Did you have any mentorship or guidance and inspiration as you traveled down that path?

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 5:16

Oh, in some ways I did. And in some ways I didn't. So I went the traditional route of going to culinary school. And I did go to the Culinary Institute of America, CIA, their flagship and Hyde Park, New York, which was an incredible experience. I actually went for baking and pastry arts. And then I transitioned into culinary when I, realized and understood that there was a call for me to explore indigenous foods. And I had always been involved in the culinary side of things because I I like learning. And I like being involved. Anyone who knows me personally or pays particular attention to my Instagram knows that I'm always doing something I apparently have something against downtime.

Michael Dugan: 6:07

Yeah, can you can you dive a little deeper into the Culinary Institute of America? I went to cooking school, but I did not go to the Culinary Institute of America except Abby did. And she was our last guest on Voice4Chefs. Yes.And I would love to hear just just to highlight or just a couple of things for, for listeners here and listeners on our podcast and also on the replay. Can you share a little bit there?

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 6:30

Sure,absolutely. So CIA is very regimented. When I was going there, I'm sure they still call it this. CIA was referred to as the West Point of the culinary world. It is set up very much like that old school kitchen brigade. We even were chef Tokes like the tall funny white paper hats. You could not show up to class nor to a kitchen just for your mealtime. In anything outside of well pressed chef whites. Some of them even wanted you to have that tea pressed into the back of your chef coat.I think that was only one because I never got called out on it. Or you had to be in business casual attire. There was no typical college experience where yeah, we get to go to class and our PJs and flip flops and our hoodies. We were in a uniform. Anytime we were on an education building, I mean,you could go to the library with you know, you know, just regular civilian clothes, as I call it,because I'm an Army brat. You could you could walk around in your civvies but if you were going to go to class, or if you were going to get a meal, you had to be dressed appropriately.And everything was that regimented. And there there is a reason why we have a particular skill set and work ethic because the entire time you were there it is this way, no exceptions.They really are trying to make you excellent.

Michael Dugan: 8:02

I came from similar at South Seattle Community College in Seattle. It was very, very similar in that way, but probably not quite as structured. But I would say pretty close. So moving on. I want to stop for a minute because I'm dying to ask this question, and you're probably not ready for it. But we're going to take a pivot. Can you tell me about your dogs? I know you have two dogs. Can you share a little bit about them?

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 8:26

Sure.Oh, they're wonderful. I have a red healer who is a rescue. Her name is Roha. She's about four years old. To the best of anyone's knowledge. And Chelsea is my big beautiful blue nose,brindle, pity, and she is six years old best guests best estimate. They are both my service dogs. I train them myself. Because service animals cost as much as a car I have yet to find that in my couch cushions. So until that happens,I am training my own pups. I rescue them from the shelters.But to tell you the truth, they rescue me just as much if not more. So. I do have PTSD from my first marriage. And I'm sure a ton of historical trauma and ancestral trauma. Chelsea is my second pit to be my PTSD service dog and Rohan. I am training in a mixture of PTSD service and security. And no one messes with my house if people actually give me a wide berth when we're at the park. I don't think I've ever been a prouder dog mom,than when I had a dog on either side of me. Both of them were relaxed. But there was probably a middle age two white gentleman walking behind us in the park,very non threatening. I was not concerned about it. But my two girls clocked him like they didn't move a muscle they just pivoted there. They just swivel their head with their neck neck muscles. Were the only thing that we're moving on those two dogs. And he just looked and he said good morning. He goes,that's impressive. And he kept right on walking. And to have to feel that level of safety as a brown woman in a park is huge.They're great pups, they're spoiled as all get out. I make their food I dehydrate their snacks. The whole nine yards but those those girls are beholden to me and they they will not let anything happen to me.

Michael Dugan: 10:30

Oh, I absolutely love that. Can you tell us what your proudest moment? As a chef or owner of Four Directions Cuisine has been?

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 10:39

Honestly I want to say the ability to leave my day job. I left my day job the first week of June. I was having I was definitely stretching myself too. Between running for directions cuisine,writing my premier book release,working a 40 hour a week day job, volunteering with nonprofits, I actually served as a co chair on the board of a nonprofit in the Latino neighborhood here in Denver, and it was just getting to be too much. And I was, I was headed toward a nervous breakdown, for sure. And so I gave myself a sabbatical, I signed up for FMLA, it got my doctor to sign off on, you know, needing a mental health break between the PTSD and the effects of the pandemic. That definitely exacerbated the PTSD at times.And so I gave myself that, that very safe break, I think I rented a cabin for a week in the mountains, I took my dogs, and I just decompressed I decompress my mind, my body got clear enough, I wasn't all the way there. But I got clear enough where I called up my boss one Saturday night, I said, I love you guys, you know how hard I've worked for you guys, I put his time for me to go. And he gave me a lot of grace. He was really understanding this is the same boss who I had a codeword with in case I triggered at work, I could text him our code word she would know to just check in on my staff say, Hey, Andrea had to take care of something real quick. I'm around if you need anything, but otherwise, she'll be back that way. People who didn't need to be in the know weren't in the know. And so he was very much a safe, partner,friends, ally, partnership and allyship, I should say, friends and boss, just just all of those things, it was a really great, a really great experience in that way,

Michael Dugan: 12:34

you know, for some people, we we experienced that once or twice in our life.And it's, it is really special.When that happens. Can you share a little bit about the experience with TEDx mile high we we posted a link up there for Yeah, I love this article. And I'm curious how it came about,like how the connection happened. Or, or if there's a backstory for it,

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 12:56

the organizers of TEDx Mile High had me out as a caterer for a particular event at a small local gallery, in the realm of you know, diversity and justice and just pulling all of these really positive elements together through art, and they wanted a chef who fit in with that kind of work, I was invited to cater that event. And afterwards, the media, people who are part of TEDx mile high,they were really impressed and blown away both with the food and the story. Because, you know, they take pictures and then write little blurbs. And you get to talking and they find out a little bit about, about the stories behind what I'm doing. And they reached back out to me and said, Hey, would you ever consider, you know, writing a guest piece for us? Like it's something we do? And you know,for for various reasons, just don't know if you've ever done that, or would want to do that.And at that time, I think I had written you know, a handful,two, maybe three guest articles for other publications. I had since shut down my own blog, but I had done a blog for a period of time. And, and he said, as a matter of fact, yes, I am also a writer. And so that's how that came to be.

Michael Dugan: 14:12

I absolutely love that. What causes your obsession, to drive to be the best because I am very similar in that way. And non stop, I start the day at zero, I have to accomplish something every day.It's part of my personality.What is it for you that creates that?

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 14:30

it's definitely multilayered? From,from a psychological standpoint,a lot of it does have to do with the adoption, processing and recognizing but also moving through the abandonment issues.So there's definitely a part of me that's a perfectionist because...Well, if I if I do this well enough, I won't get kicked to the side, you know, I won't get kicked to the curb, so to speak. But in as a chef,we're, we're very driven people,especially if we're very passionate about what it is that we're doing in particular. I I'm also somebody who is dyslexic, I have learning disability. And I've always had to work harder than other people who do not have the same hurdles to to navigate as I do. So then that's a contributing factor. And then just from the standpoint of being a woman being indigenous,and also even being too spirited, I did not have indigenous chef examples. I didn't have indigenous female examples from you know, from the work that I do to anywhere really in my life. It wasn't until I was closing in on 30that I had meaningful interactions with other Native Americans folks who were, you know, sharing their knowledge with me and their creation stories. And they're part of indigenous culture with me.Because when I started seeking that out, they saw my authenticity, they saw my true heart, my true spirit. They're like, yes, even though this sweet little orphan does not have a tribe, because America operates differently with their indigenous people than than we do here in North America. I am not what you would call a card carrying Indian, which means I don't have tribal enrollments.It's a very, very highly debated topic, because no one else has to prove their pedigree, quote,unquote, other than animals. So it was a hot button topic in the indigenous community. For all of those reasons, that's those are the things that drive me. It's the reason why I make sure to go to Navajo tech and do lectures and demos a minimum of once a year, because I am an a queer,indigenous woman who is standing up in an indigenous culinary classroom. And the students are indigenous. And they're looking at me and going. Somebody who looks like us, somebody who looks like me, somebody who's doing what I want to do, or is doing something that I want to do. It's like she's writing a book, she wrote a book. Well,hell, if she can do it, maybe I can to just all of these different elements like that representation is so important.I think those are the three biggest factors that that drives me so hard,

Michael Dugan: 17:39

when putting that I really love about you, and I've learned about you is that you inspire other people. And I really respect that. So Andrea,I want to hear about what your projects are right now. I know you are an author, and I know that you have a cookbook coming out. Can you share a little bit about that? Tell us about what's going on there? Oh, I'd

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 18:01

love to. So yes, my the first book that I have written, is now available.It is titled hashtag bring them home. The entire premise of the book is to spread awareness, but also raise funds for NABS, which is the National Native American boarding school healing coalition. They do work to raise awareness about the traumatic,genocidal experience of Indian boarding schools, as well as they do help with the relocation of the indigenous child remains,they still need to be located.In a lot of instances, the schools when the children pass away, either because of abuse or natural reasons. They were buried on the on the school property. Some of them had markers, some of them didn't.And so now, so many years later,there's this effort to locate the remains, identify them, and then return them to their homelands. So whether they have family that is still living or not, they're trying to locate the appropriate tribes, and send the you know, son, send the children home, essentially. And so the way that I created the book was very much in chef fashion, I created a prefix menu, essentially. So seven courses, I had a professional photographer who's become a close friends, as well photograph the the seven dishes.And, you know, they have title just like a prefix menu. And they have, you know, very minor descriptors, just like a prefix menu. And then on the opposite page, are facts and statistics about the Indian boarding schools. And so one one pages have an address part of an address that Deb Holland gave about launching a task force to help locate and compile this this major report to essentially prove, you know, Hey, these are where the child remains are,these are the Indian boarding school locations. This is where we think the remains are in this is, you know, proof, we want to present proof positive that, you know, this thing happens, let's stop denying it. These are where the remains are. Let's identify them more closely and get them get them back to their homelands. And then there's another one with statement from the Department of the Interior,you know, so on and so forth.And so the whole book is intended to you kind of take you on this emotional roller coaster ride of hey, beautiful picture that looks quite where's the chef again, but that looks really good. And, you know, to have that almost, you know, just have that, that dopamine almost,you know, and serotonin going on in your brain and then almost to come crashing down to read these, you know, really, you know, statistics about Indian boarding schools and so you know, maybe it takes you 10minutes to get through the book tops. And it kind of takes you on that mini emotional roller coaster ride with the honestly with the intent of saying, Okay,that was an intense 10 minutes for you. This is what we as indigenous people feel on a daily basis. I'm glad that you enjoy the book, you know,almost, and not not to make that sound cold or crass. It's just it's a taste. You know, it's it's an example. And I don't know how to do that in any other way other than telling stories with food.

Michael Dugan: 21:51

Yes. And you tell amazing stories with food. You know, the the other thing I wanted to do was identify one or two of your dishes. And if you could speak to when you create in the kitchen, if you could share any story about one of your dishes. I know we talked about CityWalk but is there another dish that you have a quick story on?

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 22:14

I do. So I really geek out on my purple potato gnocchi. Oh, I love Italian food. I love it so much.I think it's just like the warmth and the family focus and the community focus. I just I really love rustic soul food,you know, regardless of what culture it comes from, like their rustic soul food from any culture that is my jam.Sometimes when I when I create new recipes, that's you know, me being fixated on an ingredient or a season. Sometimes it's me being fixated on a European dish. And I think to myself, How can I indigenize this so I sort of looked at the the base ingredients of gnocchi, said okay, well, I can maybe I can use quinoa flour instead of all purpose flour, that's from the Andes. I'll use purple Peruvian potatoes instead of you know,Yukon gold potatoes. All potatoes originated from the Andes, but these purple ones,they have, you know, different color, it's it's eye catching, I ended up you know, adjusting these different adjusting these different ingredients and elements. And I came up with purple potato gnocchi. And then instead of putting it in that traditional, you know, Italian style red sauce, I charred red peppers, I charred tomatoes,both of which, by the way,originated in the Andes as well.You're welcome Italy. I'm just kidding. And, and poblanos and I started taking hot peppers, and roasting them and trying the onion. So all these things that you would do in like a Latino style salsa. I was doing that to a red sauce. So it was kind of combining the flavor elements of you know, Mexican salsas with,you know, an Italian red sauce that is meant to go on the plate as a base to this gnocchi. And so before I you know, share this with people, I let them know I said this is gnocchi, but it's not like an Italian Yoki that you've ever had. And I tell them about some of the ingredients swaps and you know, so that way they're prepared for it, and then they eat it. And then they start asking me more questions,then they're even more engaged.And even more intriguing.They're like, okay, so you said this about the potatoes. But what else? You said it's gluten free. So what's, what's the change there? And this doesn't taste like my known as red sauce. So what did you do to this to make it taste this way?And so it's a really great conversation starter, and it's a lot of fun.

Michael Dugan: 24:44

Can you share the title of your book one more time and how our listeners can find it?

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 24:49

Absolutely.So the title of the book is bring them home. And it starts with the hashtag. So it's not spelled out it's the actual you know, pound symbol. And you can find it on my Square shop. And say my Square shop if you go to my website for directions,cuisine, fo you are directions,cuisine, click on the shop, and then you'll see the red cover right there in my Square shop.And that is that is the book.

Michael Dugan: 25:22

Okay, great. Now we're moving on to one of my favorite parts a special question I have for you as a chef, as a longtime chef, can you share any kitchen disaster that you've come into?

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 25:37

I'm not sure how much of a disaster this was was just a major pain in the ass. So I have a thing for making ice creams. That was actually one of the things that I would do after my husband at the time went to bed. I would stay up until like one o'clock in the morning making ice cream basis. because it was my Meantime, it was my disconnect from all of the drama and craziness that was going on. I think it was my first job my first job in Boston first job out of college. And I had just made a whole bunch of ice cream basses. I was courting them into the walk in freezer, but one of them fell and just went splat.All I was like it was easily a gallon of custard base, and it hit that freezer floor and immediately just froze. Instant.All of those butter solids, all of those fat solids, just everything. Instant freeze. So there was no, just mop it up with a little degreaser,everything will be fine. I was scraping ice cream base off of that freezer floor for the next half hour. That was squeegeeing it. I was trying to get ripping hot water with degreaser, so that I could mop before it froze, it was a mess. It was a mess. It was a hot mess.

Michael Dugan: 26:59

As we head out,there's just a couple other questions I want to ask Yeah.Can you share a little bit about what it was like teaching at the Navajo Technical University as a guest, like,

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 27:11

it's such a beautiful experience. And it's also a little bit of a trip for me as well, because I'm not someone who talks about myself very often, like I usually talk about the work. If someone wants to talk about me, you know,outside of a setting like this,I usually end up deflecting and talking about the food again anyway, or the business or a project or something like that.But I get treated like a rock star, when I go down there, and it's such a trip, I just have the biggest grin on my face right now. Because I love every single one of those of those students, they have so much potential, they have so much desire to be in their careers,and to make awesome things happen. It's just the coolest experience. You know,culturally, we're usually very shy. The indigenous culture community is very much about the whole the community. So there's a whole lot of No, don't stand out as an individual. It's about your family. It's about your tribe. It's about your clan,it's about your you know,whatever. It's always community,your group focused. So when I first started going down there about four years ago, they were very, very quiet, did not have a whole lot of questions, the chef's would have to answer the questions, to try and get more information out of me for the benefit of the students. And four years later, now, when I go down there, I do not shut up. I do not stop talking. Chef, I have a question. Chef, I have a question. Chef. What about this chef? What if that happens? What do you do? Just rapid fire questions.

Michael Dugan: 28:59

Yeah, love it.That's so fantastic.

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 29:02

It's so cool to see that shift, you know, and so many of them are,you know, they're that school is, is right across the street from the rows, right, so like I'm driving by my right hand side is the campus on the left hand side, I can see the res,you know, through the fence. And you know, these, most of these students are from the rows, and some of them want to stay and do some really cool stuff in their communities. Some of them want to explore the world, some of them just want to, you know, get out but not too too far away.But at the end of the day, every single one of them, from my experience just wants to do good for themselves do good for their families do good for their communities. And that's so important. And them having that feeling of autonomy. And that belief in themselves and their skill set is just so so excruciatingly important that to see them grow with me is essentially what has happened to see them grow with me because I used to be very quiet. And like oh, I don't know, I'm shy and like, oh, no, don't talk about me. No, I don't want to know it's okay. You know, Utah, you talk about your thing. You're really cool, right thing?

Michael Dugan: 30:16

How did you become an amazing speaker and a guest lecturer? Share with us because there's probably people here that are quiet, and they would be afraid to come up on stage and this is the most amazing place to be by the way.But honestly, how did you do it?What what happened do you take What strategies did you use?

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 30:36

A lot of it came down to time. You know, I wasn't I wasn't confident in my knowledge. With certain things,especially when I first started exploring indigenous foods and my own personal culture. I didn't feel like I belonged as an educator in a lot of spaces,I felt like I belonged as, as a student. And so I just kept reading things, I kept listening to things, I kept doing my own research, just wherever,wherever things took, took me,that's what I would explore. It was also positive words, from people, you know, if I felt like I didn't do a very good job, and in an interview or presenting something, there was always a kind word. You know, maybe it was, hey, that he says you did such a nice job explaining this,that and the other thing. I really wanted to know more about this one thing, you know, next time you present, I'm sure I'm not the only one who wanted to know more about x. You know,consider talking more about x the next time you present. So those kind of kind words combined with criticisms that don't even feel like criticisms.They felt like encouragement.And that's absolutely what they were for me. And that's how they were intended. And that really helped. But you know, it's a lot of it is time and getting comfortable with your yourself and your knowledge and understanding that you have something valuable to offer every single one of us does.Even if you don't think you have something valuable to offer there. There's something even even if you think it's super minut it's still an offering. It doesn't matter how big the offering is still an offering.

Michael Dugan: 32:35

Yeah, that's,that's amazing. Do you have any special message that you want to share? In clubhouse and across the world?

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 32:42

I mean,it's one that we've we've all heard before, but don't give up?I have I have been in places in my life where I thought I don't I don't know how to turn this around. Or I don't know where to go from here. Or, or even just like, how did I get here? You know, wherever it is that you you find yourself even in the most dire circumstances or positions. Trust yourself. I know that's hard. I know that's so so hard, especially when you're going through crap. But yeah, just don't just don't give up. Because you're all that you've got like we can all have our communities and we can you know, I can I can say yes, I have a you know, a wonderful group of friends who are like family I have. I have community all over Indian country and beyonds. But that doesn't change the fact that sometimes you feel very, very alone and what's happening. So whether it's a trusted friend or family member or you know, I I am open about seeing a therapist, that is a non negotiable for me. It's helpful. And therapy isn't a dirty word. Mental health isn't a dirty word. I am doing all the things that I'm doing. Not just I don't even want to say in spite of my you know, my mental health stuff, but because of my mental health stuff. I don't necessarily know that I would care as much about, you know,some of the things that I do if they didn't touch my life in a personal way. If I was not an indigenous Latina, I don't know how invested I would be an MMI WG to s. If I wasn't to spirited I don't know how invested I would be. I'm sure I would be an ally. There's no question about that. But just the level of work that I do. So find your outlets.That's my other big thing. Find your outlets. My outlet is food and cooking. My outlet is growing and gardening my outlet is community work. My outlet is training my dogs and having that pet companionship. I have a lot of outlets. So find your outlet.

Michael Dugan: 35:09

And my outlet is being a podcaster for voice for chefs and sharing chef's stories across the globe. Andhra I can't thank you enough on behalf of Buddha's religion on behalf of voice for chefs on behalf of chefs and indigenous people across the world. You are truly a voice for chefs and it is really an honor to do this interview with you.

Chef Andrea Murdoch: 35:34

I appreciate that so much Michael and Maria and Ingrid for having me as well. I wish I could give all of you just as the big ol hug. A hug from from Colorado right now.

Michael Dugan: 35:46

And you just came off work to do this with us. You are you're amazing. Oh my gosh.You're just amazing.